I need some opinions guys. We had a local track open last year and I'm trying to help them keep the crowd they have already. And I know that many people won't like the way they do this, but that is beside the point. So we basically qualify and are put in groups based on lap times. We have decided to give a fastest qualifier award for each group to try and make everyone run all out and not sandbag. But my big question is that we are going to try to run a points series with a champion in each group....what is the best way to set this up and keep up with it throughout the year with the format we run? Any of you run something like this at your track?
Setting up points series at local track opinions?
- Thread starter BryanA
- Start date
ONEHARDHEAD
Member
Is this Hartsmill Highbanks? If it is, I really enjoyed my visit there last summer. The format is somewhat unconventional in relation to what is normally done in this area, but it depends what you're going after. I enjoyed the laid-back family atmosphere there, but the introduction of points ratchets up the level of competition. The grouping according to lap times could lend itself to a lot of sandbagging down the road, but passing is so difficult on this small track that it almost cancels some of the advantage out. Classifying by age, weight, and engine rules may lend itself to a bit more fairness and eliminate any accusations of sandbagging. Any time people are racing for points, the need for consistent, thorough tech also increases, and keeps racers satisfied. Good luck with your track.
racer47
New member
Will be difficult to have a fair points system for that format. A driver that runs in the back of the fast group one week, then runs in the front of the second group the next week gets few points in the fast group and then maximum points in the slow group the next. Wont take him long to figure out what he needs to do to win a "championship". I would recommend no points for this format. Have a points class for people who want to run for points. As far as the "fast qualifier" for each group..... your reward will have to almost equal the winners take of the purse in order to make people not sandbag. Just my 0.02 for what its worth.
Yeah it will be tough. That's the biggest problem is making it fair. The owners wanted to make it where you must stay within the same group to run for points. There's just no good way to do it I don't guess. I mean the racers are going to get faster as the night goes from setup changes and what not.
As far as fast qualifier, this is a small time track where the only thing you win is a trophy. If you are the fast qualifier, you get your entry fee back as well.
kartracer24
Member
if you get enough karts to run a b main and make people race to get anything. when you give an award to someone wins the slower class and the guy who gets 5th in the faster gets nothing that only works for awhile. points would be very hard to do. the only way would be give the winner in the fast class the most points and on down the list the winner in the slower class would get points after the last place guy in the fast race. you can't give extra points to a slower guy and not everyone who out qualifed him.
What about this...we don't do a group by group points system. We do an overall. Say you finish in top 3 (for instance) in your group, you get points based on the finish. If you qualify faster the next week, you just run a faster group but you aren't penalized and will get points based on whatever place you finish. The more I thought about it, you wouldn't be in the same group every week to begin with because that is all dependent on kart count anyway. If you get caught sandbagging, you forfeit any points that you won during the race and get bumped up to a faster group from then own. Whoever has the most points at the end of the season, gets the win...no matter what groups they ran. Just one winner instead of a winner per group. And maybe we could give bonus points at the end of the season for the people that won the most "fast qualifiers" throughout the year which could make people that would normally sandbag want to get the bonus points to better their chances of winning the points. Also, the fast qualifier in each group at each race will get their entry fee back for the race.
kartracer24
Member
why don't you give same points for qualifing as feature and invert the field that way slower guys have a chance to win and give same award for both so every body trys.
A little more detail please...like an example. That could be an idea. I actually like the idea of inverting the field. I raced sprint cars a while back and we ran Heat 1, inverted and ran Heat 2 and that set the field for the Main.
Lake
New member
Set up an "A", "B" or even "C" due to the time they run in the heats or qualifying 3 laps timing, put the top 5 in "A" , the slower 5 in "B", Sand bagging and you disqualified, means if you run that ? faster in the race than you qualified you were sand bagging......everyone has a chance....Points award the same, but trophy's should state, Class: Clone heavy a, b or c .............don't know if I make any sense.....you could run a,b and c in 1 race then award class points according to how they finish,( ig. Daytona 24 hrs has 4 or 5 different class in the same race).......going to need some good time keeping or transponders.........or run each class by it self if you have the time............just my stupid idea....
jsstump#70
Member
The only way to truly have a champion is to have head to head competition between those running for the title. With 3 separate groups, this can never be done. How many do you expect to have racing in this group? So many that heats and mains cant determine a champion? So a new guy shows up. He has a ton of Kart experience, but not here. He is slow in qualifying, he missed the tires. by the time the true race rolls around he has it figured out, BUT low and behold he is a bunch faster. Too bad, your DQed for improving. What? At no point did he "sandbag" but it appears to some he did. I sure hope nobody gets some small trash in their carb early in the days event and then find and clean it before the race. This type set up punishes for getting faster. Isn't that the opposite of what a "championship" is suppose to do? The only way I can see splitting a group up with any sort of "fairness" is by pure chance. At the beginning of the day, have your participant draw one of three numbers from a hat. Have 20 1s (ones), 20 2s (twos) and 20 3s (threes) in a hat. (or ever how many people sign up) The 60 racers then race in their perspective groups for their win. Each week do the same thing. Pure mathematical chance will shuffle the fields by the end of the season. At the banquet have the top ten in points win a trophy and/or prizes. Don't limit it to the top 3.
You can improve with the example I had above. And top three was just for example purposes not necessarily what will be used. Drawing a number out of a hat would for sure be unfair for the slower karts, right? i think that would push racers away once they see they will most likely always have to race a much faster kart with very little chance of winning
kartracer24
Member
run everyone together and when you qualify give points the same as feature and give same award as feature winner. invert field that way slower guys get a chance at winning. you will never tell if someone is sandbagging because you could never put an index time on them things change to much. there's no way you can bracket race on dirt. you can't give more points to slower kart and less to a faster one. the only way to run fairly is heads up. having 2 or 3 classes is not a fair points system. give 50 points for fast qualifer and 50 points for feature winner and 2 points less on down the list. guys will try to be fast qualifer because the more people they pass the more points they get.
kartracer24
Member
if you get enough for two classes run a bmain but you can not give more points to slower guys and be fair. it's good to give people better chance but you can't make everyone a winner and guys that quit because they get beat aren't going to race long anyhow. i can tell you more guys would get mad over your points system than running heads up.
C&L_MOTORSPORTS
New member
Have a Pro class and a beginner. Give points according to finish and don't worry about making people mad. If they get mad because they don't win they need to go work on their setup,tires and driving. Most winners do just that.
darkside_racers
Member
draw numbered pills per each class. run 2 heat races.. lowest pill runs heat 1 on pole and 2 outsde pole etc until all have start postion...after heat 1 invert field.......lowest number pill in heat 1 will start at rear in heat 2 2nd lowest beside him etc until the highest pill in heat 1 will be in pole position in heat 2 and 2nd highest beside him etc....after both heat races average each racers finish position lowest will start on pole of main and 2 lowest on outside etc...give points after main from winner to last place and if you have 5 one weekend or 10 the following weekend last place gets 1 point up to winner gets the amount of points of racers that weekend.. if you want the winner each week to get something xtra give the winner.. +2 or 3 xtra points above want they earned on that nite....after season add them up......if you want qualiffying do it like the number pill system..line up in fastest to slowest then invert field on 2nd heat.....pre determine if you want fast quailfier to get xtra point or points before season and how many xtra to win fast quailfying each week........
racer47
New member
Heres a novel idea...... The driver that finishes first is the winner. That's it... its over. I have been racing karts for 2 years on and off now. I haven't even sniffed the checkered flag yet. When the race is over, I try to figure out what I need to do to get better. Not once have I got off of my kart and wondered what the track should do to help me win. Jus Sayin... This is RACING !
darkside_racers
Member
you may never win a race but if you keep racing all year in that same class your 2nd place or 5th place over a season could give you the amount of points to be champion of that class because you are racing and trying to win each week
foreverfaster
Site Supporter
maybe i missed the point, but i'll throw this out there. ASSUMING you have 10 -12 guys in a class. must run the same class each week. 50pts fastest qualifier.. 48 for second 1 point split there on down. heat races. 4 or 5 cars per. 5-4-3-2-1 points... invert same group run 2nd heat.. all 10+ racers draw for starting spot in feature. your qualification gets you placements in the heats.. alt every other driver by time for the heats (fastest guy A heat next fastest guy B heat ect.) Feature points same as qualifications.. max 110 points per night... if you were fast qualifier, won both heats, and feature... odds are it will even out if you run regularly..
OR for the feature you take 2 plus the role of one die,.. then invert the fastest (number on the die +2) at the front of the field with the next fastest qualifier at the back of that pack. if it doesn't make sense to you i can be reached at 269-806-1875
we've used that format for a long time... screws the sand baggers cuz the points award winers and leaders.. the bonus to the fast guy is the extra point.. if you want to really award the faster guy make the split from 1st and 2nd by 3 points or 5 points..
OR for the feature you take 2 plus the role of one die,.. then invert the fastest (number on the die +2) at the front of the field with the next fastest qualifier at the back of that pack. if it doesn't make sense to you i can be reached at 269-806-1875
we've used that format for a long time... screws the sand baggers cuz the points award winers and leaders.. the bonus to the fast guy is the extra point.. if you want to really award the faster guy make the split from 1st and 2nd by 3 points or 5 points..
C&L_MOTORSPORTS
New member
the cream always rises to the top. don't matter if you invert the hole field the fastest will get to the front. why penalize the guy that spends the money and time to win!you want to help the slower guys,show them what their doing wrong. even then when they get better they'll still complain when they don't win. It's called competition and (SPORTSMANSHIP)!!!!!!!!