Where are all the LO206 rules changes?

Let me clarify something. I said I didn't even like the clone, when the fact is that there is NO motor out there that would command the loyalty I had to the flathead.
There are lots of good engines out there, the Yamaha, the Vanguard is far superior to the Intek line (Animal and 206), Kohler's have proven good records also, Honda's of course, and I'm sure there are plenty that I'm forgetting.
 
rkcarguy said:
^^Hey Jim:)
Clones are getting a lot of pokes in the eye this year with some of the heads being outlawed in AKRA.
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As evident by what? The same 10-12 people you see repeatedly complaining? LOL...It wouldn't matter if there were NO rules, the same ones would find something to complain about.

If the 206 were to become the predominant engine platform, those same guys would find something to complain about with it as well.
 
The Lo206 IS the dominant platform in our neck of the woods. As the clones underperform and/or blow up they are slowly being replaced and their #'s are dwindling.
They have their place in racing I wont argue that, but our track is simply too demanding.
 
rkcarguy said:
The Lo206 IS the dominant platform in our neck of the woods. As the clones underperform and/or blow up they are slowly being replaced and their #'s are dwindling.
They have their place in racing I wont argue that, but our track is simply too demanding.
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I hope they continue to grow for you all. Growth means new faces.
 
Jimbo said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the drum clutch.
Why would you want to change the rule to allow a $350.00 clutch on a $500.00 engine that makes as much or more power as the competition and last infinitely longer.
The Briggs rule set will stay the same if not forever, for a very loooong time.
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Because, I already have a pile of Bullys like many racers who have been around for a while. I ran drum clutches for years in the ‘90s. Lesson learned and I have no interest in going backwards. Clones started as drum only and have now gone to primarily open clutch. The lesson I see in that is karters want open clutch. Racers could still save money by going with a drum clutch. Just because it’s allowed, doesn’t mean it is required.

Also, call Carlson, he will sell you a race ready Bully for $200 every day of the week.;)

ABR #69 said:
Yeah, lots of confusion by those that don't know.
The non-rev limited 206 is the animal. Which can generally be ran all season and only need a top end refresh. Going to win 10,000, you would want to spend the little bit to get the entire engine refreshed. Saturday night and you can run it all season Around 6800-7200. They will turn 8 for a longtime but need refreshed more often with little gains. Personal preference there as to what it "needs" to turn.
As far as the rev-limiter, yes the manufacturers or racers generally set those limits. But, in our case as pointed out the clones are being ran with an improvised rev limiting function. So why animosity against the out right Rev limiter that keeps the cost down on rebuilds and keeps the racing consist eNt. That is exactly why people want a Rev limiter. That is what every clone racer wanted supposedly, until you give them the real thing. Outside of that rule set you say you don't like, that is what a pro gas, or builders prepared Animal is for. Why change the rules of what is working when the option exist?
That is what happened to the clone, why do people not realize that? Builder prepared existed, but everyone wanted the Slightly cheaper version then wanted to tweak it and spend the same as the version they didn't want yo pay for. But, run it in the s tock class. It makes absolutely no sense, there are rules for a reason. Then they kept pushing and pushing the limits till now they essentially have a builder preppared engine that still tries to exist under the pretence that it's not.
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So, are you telling me I could swap the coil on a 206 and run it for a season or more at ~7K? Then why would I need or want a rev limiter?

ABR #69 said:
You missed the context, as it was taken slightly out of context in the last couple post. The entire discussion was started when Bob Compared the rev Limiter to a governor, and then asked why would you want either period.
Their reasons are different, but the principle is the same. The reason is the RACER, the same as the racers in the other series wanted a Rev limiter. The reason we want one in an introductory class is to keep the cost of rebuilds down and keep on track performance consistent.
They want one to reduce catostrophic failure and also other reasons.
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If I missed the context, I still can’t figure it out.:confused: In any case, I will reword it below so that context doesn’t matter.

In all of the other race series using a rev limiter --F1/WoO/Cup/MX/MotoGP/etc…., who sets the cutout RPM? The governing body or the race team? There is a huge difference between the two. If you are going to make a comparison between the LO206 rev limiter program and another motorsport program, it's only valid if the governing body is the one setting the RPM limit.



P.S. Everyone should take the time to read again and contemplate what Bob has said in this thread. Below are some of the highlights.

Bob Evans said:
The formula for a successful engine rules package was laid out in the mid 90's with the flathead, but now everyone seems to have a better idea. All I hear is talk about the mistakes in the flathead rules, yet those "mistakes" worked. And Lord knows we don't want to be wasting our time with anything that actually works.
I guess everything has to hit rock bottom before folks will finally look around and start proceeding with any kind of consensus. I just hope there's something left to build from at that point.
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Bob Evans said:
Let me clarify something. I said I didn't even like the clone, when the fact is that there is NO motor out there that would command the loyalty I had to the flathead.
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The camparison isn't WHY the limiter was being used, but the fact a rev limiter was being used period. Context.... I laid it out clearly as to why the statements were made the way they were. So it doesn't matter who, or even if a limit was set. As the reasoning behind the two completely different.

I understand you think we're comparing apples to grenades there, but it's in the karting world the why's and who matter. Bob's question of why would you want to race with one was a general question. We used several other series that use them, but NOT FOR THE SAME REASONS WE DO....


And, I clearly stated the reasoning behind why they want one, and why we want one. Even the clones have one, just not a good one. As you quoted the 206 without the rev limiter makes it an animal. Which means it can be prepared by a builder. I can't honestly say a 206 would last that long, but a builder prepared Animal will run a season without needing anything more than checking the valves. As to why you would want a Rev limiter is stated also. About five seasons or more vs one season, due to the extra RPM the engine see's without it. COST, that is why you want a rev limiter.
 
ABR #69 said:
As you quoted the 206 without the rev limiter makes it an animal. Which means it can be prepared by a builder.
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That is not what I am asking. I am asking about a sealed LO206 engine that follows every single rule and spec from Brigg's rules except the coil is swapped out for the unlimited one from an Animal.
 
Yeah, I can't see why it wouldn't last close to a season, they are essentially the same other than billet rod, cam, and coil on the Animal.


I can't see why it matters, as it makes it illegal for competition, and if you did remove it to build an animal you'd end up with an engine that definitely can run all season except just checking the valves. So if you were going to buy one and remove the coil, try to turn it a lot and it pops. That's you're fault, and not a fault of the package.
 
I don't know what the argument here is, the LO206 has an effective rev limiter, if that is not considered racing to you, you wouldn't expect to be racing in that class. This program also has the best method of restricting the younger classes I have seen yet, electronic and carb slide. teach the children to drive before daddy cheats them up to win.

This program has a set of rules, if you do not wish to play within the rule set, you set up your own playground and invite your playmates. It is not for everybody, it does work for many. Sorry but the flathead is dead, I would not expect to buy a tiller in 2015 with a flathead on it, I would walk past it. Many sat tyhey don't make them like they used to, I say thank god.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Bob Evans View Post
The formula for a successful engine rules package was laid out in the mid 90's with the flathead, but now everyone seems to have a better idea. All I hear is talk about the mistakes in the flathead rules, yet those "mistakes" worked. And Lord knows we don't want to be wasting our time with anything that actually works.

HUH ???
 
rkcarguy said:
On our 19 turn sprint track getting out of the turns is the key to being fast, the Lo206's and WF's hammer the rev limiter 1/2 way down the straights. The clones hammer their valves when the cheese**** springs float instead. I chewed up my first set of valves in two practice sessions. Come up with a rev-limited coil or add on rev limiter, ditch the spring rule, and I'm happy.
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Sounds like you need to be running shifters on that track. I'd recommend one of the Marcos Ambrose Thumpers (http://thumperx.com/) if you want to run inexpensive 4 strokes, and there would be plenty of high dollar options available.
How far back in the pack do you think you would finish on a dirt oval by topping out your rpm halfway down the straight?
I don't even know how to respond to thinking that includes gearing that floats the valves halfway down a long straight and keeping the hammer down for the rest of the straight.
Kind of like bungee cording your throttle wide open and starting it up on the stand. I reckon a rev limiter would be helpful in that situation.

Please don't tell me that folks were standing around scratching their heads, trying to figure out why the clones were breaking.
 
Kart43 said:
I don't know what the argument here is, the LO206 has an effective rev limiter, if that is not considered racing to you, you wouldn't expect to be racing in that class. This program also has the best method of restricting the younger classes I have seen yet, electronic and carb slide. teach the children to drive before daddy cheats them up to win.

This program has a set of rules, if you do not wish to play within the rule set, you set up your own playground and invite your playmates. It is not for everybody, it does work for many. Sorry but the flathead is dead, I would not expect to buy a tiller in 2015 with a flathead on it, I would walk past it. Many sat tyhey don't make them like they used to, I say thank god.
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Well, this is my playground, thank you for your opinion.
 
Please understand, I'm just not the type of person who puts his personal stuff up on a forum-- but--
As some of you know, in Oct I had a heart attack and was in the hospital for a quad bypass and in Nov I went in for bladder cancer. To add to this, two weeks ago my son's wife had complications with her pregnancy and they had to go in and take the baby at 2.2 lbs.
Both mother and daughter are doing fine, they're doing wonders with premature babies nowadays, and we're all grateful for that.

I'm telling you this because I'm on edge about everything, and not very tolerant of any kind of BS.
So if I post something like:
LO 206 -- Briggs Motorsport's "Nanny State"
I'd appreciate a little slack. Or not.
 
I hope everythings alright with you and your family and pray for your health and well being. I'm in the same boat, 67 yrs old and sometimes impatient with the keyboard and short with people. I apologize too. I'm just thankful we live in a free country and have a great web-site that we can express our views whether in agreement with others or not. I just need to learn to do it more frequent.
 
Many things get in the way of evolution and growth, many times it’s a belief that the world would be better off if it only stood still beginning in 1990.
 
JimEli said:
Many things get in the way of evolution and growth, many times it’s a belief that the world would be better off if it only stood still beginning in 1990.
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Oh yeah, it's growing real good. It's grown all the way down to about half of what it was ten years ago. And we're shedding Mom and Pop kart shops left and right. And that is WITH the clone saving a whole bunch of those kart shops.

In the big picture, nationwide, these mom and pop kart shops are many newcomers first contact with the sport. We need them.
Each of these shops need around 70 people racing out the shop in order to make a living.
 
Bob Evans said:
There are probably several thousand LO206's racing in the US and might include Canada, there are tens of thousands of clones racing in the US with fifteen or twenty thousand more that will be imported this year. Someone is doing something right somewhere.
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I do not agree that selling a huge amount of engines is what constitutes "doing something right."
I don't think cheap makes right. Cheap is the only rationale for the clone, and they are not cheap anymore.
Create a true box stock clone class, with $100 claimer, they you have a rational reason for clone to exist. IMHO
 
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