Box Stock

Which stock predator to run

V

Vance

New member
I'm entering a stock predator class. The only thing you can do is remove oil sensor, governor, and run a weenie pipe. Everything else must remain stock. Wondering which one to use? Hemi or non hemi? Thanks in advance for info
 
Hemi head engine with one of Jerry Dover's stock air box carbs if you can get away with it. The wennie pipe can make the stock carb go lean. Ok for top end but not so hot in the lower power bands. Be sure to free up your kart, more air pressure in tires, and roll smoothly through the corners. Beware of the very expensive predators out there. You can have more money and time in one than a stocker. If you are running good and still getting beat,claim the winners motor. You can hone the engine, de tension the rings, find the piston with the highest compression height, longest stock crank and rod, high performance crank bearings. Lap the valves in. Narrow the valve seat sealing surface, twist the cam some etc etc. All of this is being done and the motor is still stock. Kinda ruins the intent of the class. Don't be afraid to claim a few, puts a end to the above crap.
 
Thank you very much. I've seen a lot of talk about the rtc-6 and 8 head. Just didn't know what was better on a completely stock engine. Thanks again
 
Ok gentlemen. The only non tech items are spark plug and flywheel key. The rules go by USKRA rules. I cannot swap heads. RTC-8 on hemi bottom is not an option. Guess I should have checked before asking all these questions. Anyways with that being said which engine would yall choose? Hemi or non hemi? Thanks again. And I don't plan on cheating.
 
You have to understand, there are people who know what you can do to an engine and it still be stock. Things that will improve the performance.

The possibilities are endless. The engine with the fewest CC's in the combustion chamber is going to have an advantage over the engine with the most CC's.

The idea of a stock class is a nice idea but almost impossible to control.
 
Vance said:
Ok gentlemen. The only non tech items are spark plug and flywheel key. The rules go by USKRA rules. I cannot swap heads. RTC-8 on hemi bottom is not an option. Guess I should have checked before asking all these questions. Anyways with that being said which engine would yall choose? Hemi or non hemi? Thanks again. And I don't plan on cheating.
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I would try the rtc6 or rtc8 headed engine.. if you cant get it..the hemi..
 
Thanks everyone for your help! The race is December 5th which will be a while. I will let yall know the outcome. Al I'm not a genius of any sort but it seems like an easy way to control that class would be for the promotors to go out and buy the engines and have them sitting there in the box. The racer could show up, pay his entry fee, and the cost of the engine at the track. Maybe someone will do this one day. I love karting. My wife, kids , and I recently got into karting (8 of us all together). We truly enjoy the sport and would like to continue for years to come. From the things I've read and people I've talked to, things like you mentioned above are killing the sport for the common man. Hopefully it will turn around some day.
 
Vance said:
From the things I've read and people I've talked to, things like you mentioned above are killing the sport for the common man. Hopefully it will turn around some day.
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Define the common man! You've got six kids, nothing common about that, and it probably doesn't leave a lot of money left over for karting. I feel your pain. lol

Not to be mean or anything, but you have to come to karting, it shouldn't have to come to you. Not that you can't wish for it, or maybe get the local track to try your ideas, but don't get mad if they won't go along with it.

I've been in karting for 49 years, and this same thing has come up ever since my first year in it. Many many have been tried, all but a few have failed.
 
Vance, are you running the race in Guthrie? I'm entered too. The tech will be tough. Careful with the Holy Moses carb. They engrave HM2 on the side of it, I don't think it will be considered stock at that point. Not sure, i've got one already that I run on one of my motors. You might want to check with Ryan before the race to see what's legal. I asked him about it and didn't get a clear answer yet. The rules aren't all the way USKRA rules. Check 3D Raceway rules, that's the rules they are running. I posted them here.
Predator Class Rules

The spirit and intent of these rules is to provide a true budget class with an engine total value of $150 or less. Any attempt to circumvent these rules by adding a performance enhancing product, either mechanical or fuel, shall be considered as an intentionally illegal act and will result in disqualification for that race day.
Those who choose to race in this class enter with the knowledge and acceptance of the fact that this is a "Claimer" class. If your engine is claimed by another competitor, you must remove your engine and give it to the Tech Man, minus any non-claim parts; no arguments and no foul language or threats to anyone. If you cannot or will not abide by these rules, do not enter a kart in this class. Failure to surrender an engine when claimed will result in a loss of the current season's points up to and including the date of the claim. If you refuse a claim yo can no longer race in the class.
Promoter has the option to buy a motor at any time.
If you win 3 races in a row the motor will be bought by promoter.

Rules:

ANY Predator 6.5hp 212cc base engine, whether conventional or hemi chambered head.

Fuel is 87 octane gasoline.

Cylinder heads may NOT be interchanged between hemi and non-hemi models.

Engine must utilize the stock air filter.

The Low Oil Sensor switch may be electrically disconnected, but the switch must remain installed.

The governor assembly may be removed in it's entirety, and if removed the block hole must be plugged.

The only approved legal exhaust is a .750" O.D. mini pipe and RLV mini muffler.

Exhaust system must be located within the confines of the kart.

It is recommended that the exhaust system be wrapped or sleeved with a heat-resistant fabric to reduce the risk of burns.

Engine Fuel Tank may be located in the stock position or optionally a floor mounted fuel tank may be utilized. If a top mounted fuel tank is utilized, the cap must be taped down. If a floor mounted fuel tank is used, an auxiliary fuel pump and top plate with associated fuel and pulse lines are allowed, and the fuel pump may be pulsed from the engine sidecover crankcase, or valve cover.

The stock flywheel may not be lightened or altered in any way; it must remain factory OEM stock. Timing key must be stock, unaltered.

A flywheel must be replaced if damaged, however the engine must always utilize a stock flywheel of the same style and manufacture of that which was original equipment for that engine, with a stock timing key.

All items other than the ones specifically mentioned are to be stock OEM parts in OEM locations.

Any size shoe-type dry clutch allowed.

This is an "Open" tire class. Any tire used for kart racing allowed. No yard kart turf tires.

The Tech Man may choose to do a tear-down of an engine to ensure legality after the days races are finished for that kart. Engine owner must surrender his engine for tech. Tech is performed to insure no illegal parts are in or on the engine.



Claiming an engine:

Claim Fee is $150

Essentially, the "claim" made on an engine contains only the parts which were on the engine when it was originally purchased, with the exception of the removed governor.

Anyone actively participating in the current race may claim an engine, regardless of the position the racer starts or finishes in. Racer must at least start the race in which the claimed engine is racing, even if they receieve a DNF score.

In the event of a claim on an engine with a floor mounted fuel tank, the floor tank, auxiliary fuel pump and top plate are not included in the claim.

Exhaust system (header pipe and muffler) are not part of any claim made, and shall remain the property of the engine owner.

Motor mount, clutch, chain guard, and aftermarket throttle linkage are considered non-engine add-on's, and are not part of the claim.
 
Thanks for the info. I am truly gonna run by the rules. I figure if I get beat, oh well. I did email Ryan with a concern about the flywheel. He replied that they haven't seen any issues with stock and to follow the USKRA rules which states I can run an aluminum. So, now I'm really confused. I have 2 hemis untouched and 5 flat karts. I guess im gonna go buy some more non hemis and go have some fun. If you have time give me a call 254-447-0999
 
By common man I guess I meant that I'm gonna pay my bills before I go racing. Sometimes I don't have or don't choose the amount of money it takes to play some of the games. I started in a RWYB class which I have been pretty successful with. Although it can get expensive. I have over $1,500 in a clone that has done well for me. That's me doing all the work. I would just really enjoy a truly stock class also. Thanks for your advice and knowledge. I am new to this forum and have read many posts you're involved in. I guess what I'm trying to say is thanks and your opinions are very respected by me.
 
That is what I say, claim a few motors. Will fix a lot of crap. But, work on the set up that is key. I help build two Winston Cup motors that won back to back Daytona 500's and I worked just as hard on setup, drive line and body as the engine's. Wanted to be sure that the engine had as a easy Sunday.
 
Just talked to Ryan. Stock flywheel, timing key and stock breather. The rules from 3d are the rules for the motor. The Holy Moses 2 carb is NOT legal. Stock parts only except for header.
 
I'm a little confused as the budget nature of the class yet with open tires, but I guess it's a start.
How big is the track and what type? I think the Hemi is a better top end motor but the non-hemi may get off the turns faster on a tight track.
Advantages here would be in tires, clutch setup, and general kart setup. I'd always have a couple extra motors broken in and ready to go. One thing I don't like about claims, is that if someone was a close 2nd in some points championship, they could claim the leaders engine just to be as big of a pain in the rear as they could to upset that. Having to hurry to the nearest harbor freight, get another engine, remove governor, mount all the externals and break it in would be a tall order before the next event.
 
Dec 5th in Guthrie Oklahoma. It's indoor and not sure of its size. I'm very excited about it. Hoping it will depend solely on the things you mentioned. My only concern now is adding weight to my karts. At our local track there are no weight rules in the class we run and all my karts handle extremely well. It's a one event race so I'm not concerned about the engine claim rule. Mine will be all stock so if someone wants to claim I will be making money.
 
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