Yamaha Rules at Daytona

M

Mr South 59

New member
I see some discussion about the Yamaha rules on another thread and I thought it would be a good idea to start is own thread.

Do we need history to repeat itself. In the past when the rules were deviated from WKA stock rules the class feel apart. A couple years ago when they announced the return of Yamaha class to Daytona there was some excitement. Then they announced to make it stock appearing and the boat already started rocking and it hadn't even left the port. Then I asked if I could run my SA and the rules started changing from SA to whatever. So now my stocker is under powered and my SA isnt legal.

Many of us voiced our opinions about keeping the class WKA stock. Many said they thought there would be a full field if they kept the rules WKA stock since there are 1000's of the out there. They decided to cater to a few small cell of individuals and a newly developed rule package. They proceeded forward with a built motor on alky rule package against stock Yamaha on gas. A small weight break if you didn't run a built motor on alky.

Well two years have passed at Daytona and the future doesn't look good for this class. There was a very small turn out at Daytona in 2012 and an imbaresing 8 Yamahas at Daytona in 2013. Obviously the rule package isn't working. I don't believe that the group that put this SA together is growing either.

There aren't enough of these types of specialized SA motors in the country to support the class at Daytona. And, our "real" SA motors are not legal to run. Guys like me are not going to hack up our stockers to build a specialized Yamaha that is only legal at a few tracks in the country. If you want the Yamaha class to work at Daytona you need to keep the class WKA Yamaha. I feel that the SA rule for Daytona is keeping more racers away from than it is attracting.

If you want to hog out a KT and run it on alky have at it. They are already a class for that. Its called UAS. Built motors shouldn't be run in the same class with a stocker.

There are thousands and thousands of WKA legal Yamahas just sitting on the shelves just waiting for a WKA Yamaha class to reappear. Somebody needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

And while your at it. Make it WKA weight also. Make it what ever weight you can find in print in any past WKA rule book. But at least keep it WKA. The class prospered for years and had plenty enough entries that you had to worry about making the main, until WKA thought they were going to do away with 2strokes(EPA). It could be brought back easily if the just went back to the rules that worked for years.



JMO. Had to get that off my chest. Carry on...
 
If that's the case how come Wka has hardly any Stock Yamahas running except in the junior divisions, run with a can. They teched the engine out of their ranks and that's why there are thousands of them out there not racing. I would like to know what type of SA Yamaha you have that's not legal to run. Would it be illegal in the format presented in the UAS class proposed. Must have a stroker crank or reeds. That's the only way it would not qualify. What are the reasons that's its not legal. To many rules where you were trying to run it? Trying to run with a stocker is not feasible, even with a weight break. Did you completely tear the stockers down and tech them to WKA rules to make sure they are legal? That's a ton of work. That's what the class proposed in the UAS post was all about. Two rules and very simple tech. I know Jack B very well and have heard about all the trouble you guys had over this, but that was a lot different than what was proposed on the UAS thread. The reason for the no stroker and reeds is to keep it cheaper to take a stock Yamaha thousands sitting around and bore or hog as you said and run it on alky, Make a lot of HP and have no cheating because you cant. That's something no class of racing can say without extensive teching to make sure everybodys engines are the same. Why do you think Woltjer and the other top stock builders get so much money for their builds. They have proprietary secrets that they use to bend the rules and still stay legal. Isnt this what the UAS is about innovation with a engine within a given format. All that's required is some real good porting a big piston and alky. Some my have better port work than others but that's not that big and advantagd there plenty of info to help figure that out. Dual carbs wont matter you can get all the engine will ever use out of one.
 
Only problem with WKA rules as far as I can see is having the people to back up the tech. Adding a stock class you now need support people to do the work of inspection. Every single time we talk Yamaha the same arguments arise and nobody can agree on any thing. The guys that run the local yamaha class are all friends and they can't agree from one week to the next. Kinda why I just stay with open modified UAS. Just saying. LOL.
 
They just had this rule package for the second year in a row as a support class to the UAS at one of the biggest formats of the year. Two rules. 8 karts. A 30% drop from the first year to the second year. You call that working.

I had a "real" SA KT. Stroked and reeds. It is what a legal SA always was until now. When it was brought up on here what my SA was when the rule package discussion started about 2 1/2 years ago for Daytona, that is when they decided to not allow reeds. The new rules made most all of the real SA's that are out there obsolete. I had over 3k in that motor 18 years ago. I got a large cash offer for it 2 years ago and sold it to a guy on here out west.

And yes. For many many years I raced WKA stock and on occasions I had my motor cc'ed and torn down. After the cool waiting period it really only takes under 10 minutes. The rules you are proposing still need to be teched also. How do you know the guy that bought my old SA isn't running the jug and hiding reeds with out taking it apart and teching it for reeds. How do you check the bore for max size with out teching? Just saying you can't have reeds doesn't mean you don't have to tech for them.

The rules also allow for WKA stock Yamaha on gas with a weight break. They need teched to along with the fuel. If you are going to race you are going to have to have tech. Plain and simple.
 
Taft Racing said:
Only problem with WKA rules as far as I can see is having the people to back up the tech. Adding a stock class you now need support people to do the work of inspection. Every single time we talk Yamaha the same arguments arise and nobody can agree on any thing. The guys that run the local yamaha class are all friends and they can't agree from one week to the next. Kinda why I just stay with open modified UAS. Just saying. LOL.
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Yah Tim. The rules are everywhere right now. I have been running Yamaha for a long time. WKA stock is the only thing that will work for all.

Guys don't want to run their stocker on gas against built opens on alky making 30hp. A 30lb weight break don't cut it. I believe that is the main reason for the drop in the class in just 1 year.
 
That's never been the rules for a stock appearing kt anywhere I have ever been or heard of. Never been allowed reeds or stroked cranks on a kt engine. That's insane to spend 3000$ on a kt you can buy a 142 stroked bad a$$ sudan or good used wankel or a super fast 450mx for that kinda money, This is exactly the point of the Yamaha proposed class 600-700$ for a SA kt. That's something all racers can afford even for a guy who runs the open class to have for a second engine. Why would anyone in their right mind spend that on a Yamaha. I new that is what you were gonna say and thats why you are mad about the SA class, I must have ESP. This package will work very easily except for someone who spent that much money on a KT wow. The stock package doesn't work that's why theres 1000s of em sitting around not being raced and that's a fact. I have raced them since the 80s myself and watched them die out. That's to bad for such a inexpensive little fireball. Heres a simple way to bring them back and guys like you don't want to do it because of their own personal interests. Oh and buy the way it takes a lot longer than that to tech a kt. Plus all the tools required.
 
The MAIN reason that there were only 8 Yamahas racing this year is simple,,,,,,,NO ONE PROMOTED THE RACE. NOBODY STEPPED UP TO PROMOTE THIS EVENT. Me? I ran my Yamaha inside DIS this year. Yes there are very valid points you are making about the rules. So with that, I would say get busy. Make it happen. Do something about it. Get involved. Make a change. PROMOTE AND RUN THIS EVENT. All you have to do is contact WKA and make it happen.At the same time, find some vendors/sponsors/manufactures to become pasionate about the Yamaha on dirt again. You build it, lets see it happen. The Yamaha racers are waiting,,,,,,,,,,,
 
I ran a stock on gas but I had a blast it was fun would have been more fun if all were stock though LOL and I was a little heavy also LOL
 
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Sjg22 said:
I ran a stock on gas but I had a blast it was fun would have been more fun if all were stock though LOL and I was a little heavy also LOL
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Steve,

I ran a SA on gas. Weighed 400 lbs at scale. I got to watch a good race between you and Wayne.


Hoppy
 
Hoppy said:
tttt
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Give me a rules format you guys can live with. I'll put it on the fas schedule. Do you guys want to allow equivalent industrial 4 stroke engines? We need some youth in the program. Also I need a fruitland park schedule asap. Please and thank you. Tim
 
Andrew,

We are considering a rule change to the Yamaha class. It would be the following:

WKA legal Yamaha 335 lbs.

"Florida" Stock Appearing 375 lbs. (No strokers, no reeds, "perhaps open carburetor")

Would you race Yamaha again under these rules? What do the rest of you guys think about this proposal? Let me know.

Hoppy
 
Ok guys lets try this. SA kt basics buy a Burris forged to 54.5mm piston buy a out of WKA specs cylinder.I can usually get cylinders cheap pm me see what I can do. Next machine the intake port with a dremmell as low on the bottom as you can go. Create a nice upward sloping taper into the intake track , and eyebrow the same bottom side the port .015-.020 either side. Take the dremmel and shape the intake track into a true radius as soon as possible behind the port entrance. Thats all the intake work needed. Now remove about .125 off piston skirt and do not create a champher, just break the sharp edge.This allows the air-fuel charge to enter the cases in more or a quick burst speeding up the flow. Exhaust work, eyebrow the top of the exhaust .020 on either side do not raise much at all maybe a very slight arc in the middle to the eyebrows. Get inside the exhaust track and create a true radius from as close to the ex port entrance as possible. Do this in both intake and exhaust by removing the largest amount of material on the sides where its still rectangular behind each port. Use a lightweight rod and wrist pin shot peen rod if possible. The new lightweight rods are just about as strong as the heavy rods.Shave the head to 10cc keep about a min of .025- .030 squish. Make sure crank is trued as straight as possible .002 is good. Crank end play should be .010-.015 max. Achieve this with bearing shims PLACED BEHIND THE BEARINGS from kart supplier. Use high quality crank bearings. new crank seals. Get a alky carb wb20 walbro, Buller alky atomiser for cheap, or Tilly if ya got the money. Run a Buller kby-97 or tsow pipe and you got a real good SA kt 109. PRETTY SIMPLE AND CHEAP AND EAST TO DO. This may not be the ultimate fastes set up but it will get everyone close enough that tires and set will be the difference.
 
Stock WKA/IKF Yamaha @ 330#
Stk Appearing Yamaha @ 370# (no reeds, alky good, open bore stoke)
100cc Controlled WKA/IKF @ 390#

You just added about an additional 12-15 karts

If you want to really mix it up, Add a WKA Limited Mod FH at one weight and Animal at another weight (Just added another 15-20 karts)

Instant UAS entry level class.
 
If you go with current rules package we've been running , and then introduce a TECH inspection, i think things would shake out. If you check for stroke,thats simple.The current rules i believe SA rule was stock bottom end, no strokers, no reeds ,any bore size,port what you want,@390 lbs. Fuel open.I think also rule should be to use yamaha parts,this keeps it simple/even. Stock on gas@360?, maybe drop the weight?? We dropped to 350, but that didnt fill the grid. You drop the weight more than that, it now shifts us heavier packages out. The fruitland rule was put together by Frankie and those guys, tried,tested,worked. As for Daytona, thats really up to us to set the rules, and then decde to TECH OR NOT. THERE IS PLENTY OF TIME FOR SOMEBODY TO TAKE THE LEAD,SET THE STAGE, PROMOTE THIS EVENT.
 
Those weights will never happen. I and a few others came up with the rules as they are. I talked with Terry Hall Jack B and many others and this is what we came up with. The rules have worked in FL for about 5 years now. Problem is the light guys don't like the 360# rule. We could let stock be 335# and make SA 375# allow them to be full blown SA engines and then it would destroy the class because no stock at that weight can beat a true SA @375#. Mike N beat be me on a regular basis at Fruitland with his stocker. I was on a SA and weighed 395#. Leave the rules the way they are.

The class just needs to be promoted better. I did it for a while but didn't have enough time and help to do it better. So now someone needs to step up and take charge.

You want a rule change start a Yamaha Club like I did and let the members decide what the rules should be. That is how we did it before.

Not trying to sound mad or mean about just telling you what will tear this class apart.

Frankie
 
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