131 bilett Sudam crank.

PBR Allstar said:
Just to chime in on the f1 thing, when BMW was running the m12/13 engines I believe the most boost the fia let them have was 5.4 bar in qual trim this made an estimated 1300 bhp. Now they successfully ran these engines in test situations near 7 bar and its pretty well
Click to expand...
1 bar = 14.504 psi
7 bar =101.528 psi
5.4 bar = 78.322 psi
I really don't know for sure, but I think Indy cars are restricted to 60 inches of boost.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
At the peak of the turbo era, before fuel and boost restrictions they were 1.5L turbo motors. Usually i4 or v6 setup. Fuel wasnt gas of course, honda for example used a blend of toluene (pumped though heated lines) and n-heptane. N-heptane was added to bring the octane number down to the MON 90 required by the FIA at the time. Quoted qualifying figures were between 1300-1500 HP. who really knows. I think Honda said their dyno couldn't measure it.

1987RA167Eyaymaybe.JPG
 
That's amazing, 14.1 horsepower per cubic inch, and that's at 1300 horsepower. With 90 octane fuel no less. A 100 cc kart engine would have to make 84.6 horsepower to match that. Just unbelievable what those Honda engineers can do.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
fwiw, shooting for what your after, may not be impossible, but reliability is going to suffer, and in the grand scheme of things, I would rather add 30-40#'s and gain the 100cc's a 250 will give me.. a much more reliable powerful package. even if you build it, it may or may not be equal to the brc, buller, or other hybrid 150's..

if your talking hot fuel, don't be surprised, a lot of guys run it.. if your wanting to stroke a crank, send it to crank works, they'll move the hole for 200.00, stroking a crank doesn't change blowdown just when it happens., I believe more is gained from over boring.. jmho.. having used forged pistons, they have their own disadvantages....

Having to ask how to build something is kinda lame... you need to step off in the deep end, and learn how to swim..
 
Ya know Mike I used to think that asking for information was beneth me too. After just jumping in and going for it cost me some expensive hard learned knowledge i have changed my attitude. I like to know what iam doing before I start something. Bet ya you your lame attitude has cost you some stupid spent money on hard learned mistakes. But each to his own i always say,everybody has their own opinion just like they have A$$ holes. These are racing engine we are discussing here and thier lifespan is already limited. Until I do some testing I cannot say how much my project will reduce this span. But I do agree it will reduce it some ,but i dont think it will be much. As i stated earlier I dont like the long stroke engines becuse they take so much time to get wound up. They will produce large amounts of torque but that is just my prefrence and the way I like my engine to preform with my driving style. Every one of the big engines are turning circle track racing into drag racing down the straits. Yes you have to handle very well around the corners but the big dogs are running everything down the straits( streching the legs) as everyone says. Darell Waltrip said he always loved a racecar that handled great in the straits. As we all know 60HP is a lot to keep hooked up in the corners with a great set of tires and great setup chassis. So whats the other power above that for DRAG RACING DOWN THE STRAITS. Torque is all about starting the process of acceleration and HP is about continuing the process after initiall take off. Why do you think that HP will continue to climb long after torque has reached its max. Thats why my project will bring the short stroke quick rapping engine back in the ball game bigtime. You know what I find to be really funny. There are so many negative comments on my project yet I havent even posted ANY information about it yet. So people are stating thier opinions about something thay dont even know what it is.
 
I don't think i said anything negative.. asking for info, is a lot different than sharing info.. I can only hope that for any info i've been given I was able to provide a little info myself.. the problem is, a lot of time info given is ignored..

Actually it's not that hard to hook the heavier karts up, put it this way, until you've been overhauled on a 141, at a 20# weight disadvantage by the big engine karts, will you know..
 
Wow I haven't read all this post but it's pretty cool of the uas class to allow this sort of thinking to happen. But as I have stated before stroke length has nothing to do with rpm, stroke length only sacrifices engine longevity and increases stress. Fwiw 1200hp was in qualifying trim which was a maximum run of out lap and then a timed lap and then in the pits on third lap. Motor out and new motor in. Turbo engines were 1.5 litres. Cylinders liners were screwed into the heads to deal with head gasket problems of the extreme boost pressures. I not sure if ceramic pistons were allowed.
 
This thread is way way off the OP target question, & started with Glider's new HP widget discovery & I'm as guilty of this hi-jacking as the next (and maybe parts of this thread are good candidates for a copy/paste into a new OP discussion thread called "When is enough a enough?" or "Damn the Torpedos Full Speed Ahead" and let me know & I'll do this upon general consensus and we can stop here & start a new thread easily before it's too late) but...in the spirit of not being a party pooper... Wagons Ho !!

As strange as this sounds I agree with Glider (Daaanng !!!) rather largely in-part. JMHO here But.....it seems Deja vu to me with respect to 110hp+ 270cc dual C-Open racing with front brakes. Hard charging "drag racing down the straights" a coasting tentative clumsy plodding in the corners and then another drag race down the straight. In contrast, Not the aggressive dynamic fluid corner racing of the 60hp or less Open singles. The contrast may very well be in part due to the corner to corner straight away drag race front brake driving style or the over 60+hp increased MPH straight speeds that might require such deceleration requirements to avoid catastrophic events on every corner. Nothing new here "Speed Kills" depending on the track; which echos back to many multiple safety concerns in many threads on bob's, pitting the no HP evolution restriction Taftology followers against the "hey it's just a open kart frame there's got to be a safety limit within reason" followers. There very well may be a speed MPH and/or HP "sweet spot" in "short track kart racing" where beyond that point you lose something or enter a point of diminishing returns in dramatic spirited short track racing vs reasonable safety for both the short track racing racer & short track racing spectator. Perhaps one could be of the opinion that there's a difference in max Speed (MPH) vs. Quickness/acceleration. Perhaps reasonable heads should prevail & say if want straight line max Speed/MPH direct your efforts to drag racing top MPH & build a 1/4 or 1/8 mile drag kart or a top MPH dry lake speed kart without corners. In other words, short track racing was designed by its nature for quickness, corner racing drama & not top speed. The parable like analogy might be explained by looking at the antiquated technology of a wooden roller coaster has speed safety limits by the very virtue of it's design but rarely can the insecure feel be duplicated or as enjoyable or FUN no matter how hard the hi-tech engineered hi-speed metal roller coasters try; hence why so many wooden roller coasters are still very popular, profitable, exist & are still built.

For orderly posting I'll port the thread & we can continue there if you all wish. See the thread " When is enough a enough? " "Short Track racing.. Does Speed Kill ? "

ttownwideglider said:
"As we all know 60HP is a lot to keep hooked up in the corners with a great set of tires and great setup chassis. So whats the other power above that for DRAG RACING DOWN THE STRAITS ? Every one of the big engines are turning circle track racing into drag racing down the straits."
Click to expand...
 
Hey guys I might be out to lunch here but I would like to throw the idea out there about traction. With the big engines now making up to 90HP. I think its time for the tire manufactures to catch up to the rest of the technical improvements that have occurred lately. I have been talking for a long time about the available traction we now have. I run a Sudam and still blow the tires off at 50HP. I cant even vision what it like to have 40 more HP to try and hook up with the tires we have right now. WE NEED SOME BIG FATTIES FOR THE REAR END TO GET THE FORWARD DRIVE AND TRUE CORNER SPEED THESE KART A ABLE TO MAKE. 9.5 is the widest made and that's not near enough. Flat lto karts aren't sprints or even mini sprints where we slide the rear end all the way around the corners. It would be awesome to come off the corner and hammer the throttle lift the front end and feel like cruise missile taking off instead of going up in smoke. How do these rest of you guys feel about this? Lets let Burris and the others know what we want from them. They will be glad to produce what we want its all money in their pocket. Seems like all these posts go back to where the UAS is going in the future. Lets talk about where its at right now and what will make it better right now and I believe tires are a big issue.
 
Interesting. Maybe hoosier could make something. Of course you'll need wheels too, maybe VanK could so something there or you could custom make your own RR.
Consider this though...a wider tire doesn't change the size of the contact patch, only the shape of it, assuming you keep pressure same. But you could run softer/grippier rubber and have it last longer by virtue of the fact that you are spreading the work over more rubber.

Interesting idea though, custom sidewall profile size and compound on the rear would be cool
 
UMP modifies run on a 8'' tire and book them up no problem. Yes they have suspension but there Are chassis manufactures that are making chassis that have more grip in them. Also with the tire preps there are teams hooking up the big engines with no problem.jmo
 
Hey Radial the contact patch will increase somewhat with a 12" tire on a 14" wheel. I understand its a fractional proportion with the increase in the width of the tire. Just as the contact patch on a 5" LF on a 6.5 wheel is not as wide as a 9" RR on a 10.5 wheel. Just saying the tire guys need to come up with something with a lot more forward grip to handle all this power. The tires we have now were designed with the Sudams in mind at their power outputs, which is now very old school compared to the Big Jawas and 450s. Their are some teams that are making the tires work somewhat, because that's all there is so they have to. But as far as hookin up real good nobody is capable of doing that. The drivers are feathering the throttle a lot to make it happen. No one can hammer the throttle without torching the tires. Ask Robbie yow and some of the other top big power drivers.Iam not talking about other forms of racing either just LTO karts.
 
Feathering the throttle is good -- it shows who the real drivers are. If you want to be so hooked up you don't have to lift, go drive a Briggs, IMO. I'm curious to see what this new power adder scheme is....and to what other applications it can be applied.
 
Actually, it should be able to be done, hot fuel, and the programmable ignitions, reliability suffers, and you'll have to have a carb that is metered for hot fuel, shouldn't take but a couple blow ups to figure it out..

When you see a rod pulled out of the bottom of the piston, not pretty, still got that rod laying around somewhere...
 
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