Animal carb on meth vs wf carb on gas?

[ABR #69]

Yeah, considering almost every track we race at the UAS is barely a second faster than the stock classes, some times less. I can guarantee the difference between UAS and stock class is just a little more than a 3 hp difference. So at least for oval racing you're way off the mark.

 

[Dav]

At pats acres 1/2 mile sprint track 6-7 seconds difference in lap times is normal between a lo206 and 125cc pro shifter Kart. the speed into turn 1 at the end of the long front straight is 54 to 80 mph. My world formula 65.5 mph. a methanol pro engine turning 9500 would have a top speed around 73 mph. That would b very cool to drive.

 

[RadialFin]

My world formula 65.5 mph. a methanol pro engine turning 9500 would have a top speed around 73 mph.

That’s a huge jump in speed. I’d be very surprised if the “methanol pro” version would actually pull the required gear to that RPM.

Want to be clear, I’m not knocking your work. In fact I’m loving that you’re playing around with this and I’m following with interest.

For the shifter you have to keep in mind that its average power over the lap is much higher due to the gears. Single gear has to be a compromise so that it pulls through the entire range.

 

[One Fast Kat]

For me, I think to experience using methanol fuel. And being able to get through the day at the track.would b worth it.

It is really not that much work.
I have a small plastic kart tank. I fill it with regular gas and a little Marvel mystery oil.
I have a fuel line and shutoff on it.
As soon as lasts race is over . I hook that fuel line to the inlet on the fuel pump and start the engine, run it until is starts puffing out black smoke or runs like crap. then make sure the engine is at TDC , Both valves closed.. that is all.
But you do need to use an oil just for methanol. Something like FHS 62R. And change it after every track practice or race.
I have seen some disconnect the fuel line to the gas and allow to run out of fuel. That way it won't keep the fuel bowl full.

 

[Dav]

That’s a huge jump in speed. I’d be very surprised if the “methanol pro” version would actually pull the required gear to that RPM.

Want to be clear, I’m not knocking your work. In fact I’m loving that you’re playing around with this and I’m following with interest.

For the shifter you have to keep in mind that its average power over the lap is much higher due to the gears. Single gear has to be a compromise so that it pulls through the entire range.

Ya I really don’t know what a pro engine would b like. I plugged in a 4.2 gear. In the app I use as a reference. For the 73 mph. turn 7 I’m at 4665 and pull to 8447 into turn 1. last week. the straight is about 640 feet long. my fast lap of the day With a 4.13 gear. I’m assuming a more powerful engine would accelerate more quickly and pull a lot more rpm Than mine.

 

[Knightrider955]

Alcohol is considerably more forgiving when it comes to tuning. The engine runs cooler being a big benefit, and you can utilize higher compression ratio when using 112 or 114 octane methanol without running hot like race gas can cause. Methanol has a flash point of 51*F and creates a larger flame kernel due to volume alone. It also has other benefits inside the combustion chamber (tumble, swirl, atomization when suspended, etc.) Then there are the safety benefits to consider. It's also easier to tech (if you even care about fuel tech.) I would prefer an alcohol 10X over gas, especially when it comes to fueling a race engine. Locally it's not much more expensive than pump gas and certainly much cheaper than equivalent race gas. To me, anyway, the benefits are definitely worth the effort.

We currenty pay 190 for a 55 gallon drum of meth. Definatly cheaper than race gas.

 

[racinnut15xm]

Ya I really don’t know what a pro engine would b like. I plugged in a 4.2 gear. In the app I use as a reference. For the 73 mph. turn 7 I’m at 4665 and pull to 8447 into turn 1. last week. the straight is about 640 feet long. my fast lap of the day With a 4.13 gear. I’m assuming a more powerful engine would accelerate more quickly and pull a lot more rpm Than mine.

play with the gearing some more, if its pretty close to the world formulas we are running the power is dropping off pretty hard after 72-7500

 

[Dav]

Tuesday this week I went to the local sprint track. And one lap my w-f turned 8543 rpm. The grip was low. And my front evinco red tires had 693 laps On this 1/2 mile. I had replaced the rears with good used ones which where 3/8 of an in smaller in circumference. I was lifting off the gas at the end of front straight After see 8497 rpm in the second session. The tire dia. Was almost one rear tooth. The kart was consistently slipping on entry a little after my 2nd session. So I went in on the rear track on the right side, which helped. but a push developEd. So I started moving the front track out on both sides after each session. My 6th session, my last lap of the day I turned a 40.71. My best this year 40.63. The lower I gear it. The quicker it feels. I’ve been driving consistently the last 6 weeks. Once per week. With the same tires. And varying grip levels. My fast lap of each day 40.66,40.87,40.64,40.77,40.72,40.71. If I had deep pockets I wouldn’t worry about the rod failing. And gear it much lower to see the lap time results. im getting new tires before I go again. And hope it turns 2 or 3 tenths quicker when it cools off in September. I’m jonezen for a 40.50 lap time or lower. But for now I’m in the 8500 rpm club. The day the grip is good and the lap times come down I will stick my foot in it to see what happens. The 310 cam runs very well. I keep thinking if it could use more duration and or lift. i Won’t makes engine changes unless I hit the lotto. Lol. I would like to raise the compression to 12.5-13, increase valve lift, cam duration and go to 28.5 - 25 mm valves. 24 mm carb Or bigger.

 

[Dav]

play with the gearing some more, if its pretty close to the world formulas we are running the power is dropping off pretty hard after 72-7500

On the second longest straight my rpm is 7100-7200. On the long straight it keeps pulling the kart faster. The last 175 feet 7000 to 8500. On the other 5 sections of this track my peak rpm is 5200 to 6600. The length’s of the section’s vary from 137 to 700 feet. And every turn is a little different.

 

[racinnut15xm]

Tuesday this week I went to the local sprint track. And one lap my w-f turned 8543 rpm. The grip was low. And my front evinco red tires had 693 laps On this 1/2 mile. I had replaced the rears with good used ones which where 3/8 of an in smaller in circumference. I was lifting off the gas at the end of front straight After see 8497 rpm in the second session. The tire dia. Was almost one rear tooth. The kart was consistently slipping on entry a little after my 2nd session. So I went in on the rear track on the right side, which helped. but a push developEd. So I started moving the front track out on both sides after each session. My 6th session, my last lap of the day I turned a 40.71. My best this year 40.63. The lower I gear it. The quicker it feels. I’ve been driving consistently the last 6 weeks. Once per week. With the same tires. And varying grip levels. My fast lap of each day 40.66,40.87,40.64,40.77,40.72,40.71. If I had deep pockets I wouldn’t worry about the rod failing. And gear it much lower to see the lap time results. im getting new tires before I go again. And hope it turns 2 or 3 tenths quicker when it cools off in September. I’m jonezen for a 40.50 lap time or lower. But for now I’m in the 8500 rpm club. The day the grip is good and the lap times come down I will stick my foot in it to see what happens. The 310 cam runs very well. I keep thinking if it could use more duration and or lift. i Won’t makes engine changes unless I hit the lotto. Lol. I would like to raise the compression to 12.5-13, increase valve lift, cam duration and go to 28.5 - 25 mm valves. 24 mm carb Or bigger.

Easy way to up the lift and duration is get some ratio rockers. Keep an eye out for a used set, they dont come up often. I was actually suggesting less RPM, not sure if you took it that way or not, hard to tell from your response. Something cheaper than engine parts to try on those practice days. Lap times are pretty close so you are making good laps.

 

[Dav]

Easy way to up the lift and duration is get some ratio rockers. Keep an eye out for a used set, they dont come up often. I was actually suggesting less RPM, not sure if you took it that way or not, hard to tell from your response. Something cheaper than engine parts to try on those practice days. Lap times are pretty close so you are making good laps.

I ve ran 4.2, 4.13 gear ratio with this cam. I should drop down and test. I ran 3.93 with the stk w-f cam. The spec w-f class at this track runs 4.13 starting point. There 390 lbs, I’m 335 lbs. there on the the 7100 rpm rev limiter about 550 feet down the long 700 foot straight. I may be revving the pee out of my engine. Don’t need too.

 

[Knightrider955]

It is really not that much work.
I have a small plastic kart tank. I fill it with regular gas and a little Marvel mystery oil.
I have a fuel line and shutoff on it.
As soon as lasts race is over . I hook that fuel line to the inlet on the fuel pump and start the engine, run it until is starts puffing out black smoke or runs like crap. then make sure the engine is at TDC , Both valves closed.. that is all.
But you do need to use an oil just for methanol. Something like FHS 62R. And change it after every track practice or race.
I have seen some disconnect the fuel line to the gas and allow to run out of fuel. That way it won't keep the fuel bowl full.

My race cars and Karts sit in the trailer for a few weeks at a time without draining anything with no problems at all. I just race a 4 day event for 50k to win with the car and its in the trailer for a week before we race again and I dont drain or flush anything. Use Royal purple XPR 5w-20 in the meth kart motors and the Jr dragster with no issues at all. Last week we ran 2 25 lap heats and a 35 lap feature on the same oil with no problems. Run good oil and run good M1 Meth and keep your fuel drum and fuel jugs sealed good. And DO NOT ever run top lube in your fuel for karts or Jr dragsters. Good quality Meth and the correct oil make all the difference in the world.