Track Tac

Anyone know of a chemical lab for oil testing

T

Tonypowerkartsupply

Member
Im looking for a chemical lab for oil testing. If someone's oil is questionable for the KOASERIES I have a lab I can send down to for testing,(AVOMEEN ANALYICATICAL SERVICES) but its expensive. about $200 for the test. Wondering if anyone knows of a lab that's a few bucks cheaper. Thanks
 
spoke with dyson anyalsis. its $150 to have the oil looked at for additives. Bobby gettys gave told me wka use to use a company in Indiana. after a few phone calls its black stone lab in fortwayne. closed today but ill call on Monday.
 
if you can test the oil as per the instructions in the manual you will get the same information. must be done prior to the event though.
 
Why are you so he// bent on testing oil Tony? I really don't see much power gain in the oils. I'd be more concerned with other aspects of the motor personally. But at the end of the day I've never seen anyone with a class with rules race solely on power. It's 99% chassis and driver on pavement oval. Even tires play a smaller role since everyone is on vega yellows. You know that as well as I do. Biggest motor in the class won't win if the kart isn't rolling.

Imo if its the LO206 class pull the motor and have someone not associated with the series dyno it. Motor owner must provide oil and fuel. Or put a claimer rule in there.

I dunno. My opinion is yes it needs to be policed but I don't feel there's anyone straight up beating anyone based on oil or fuel. Nor do I feel we have any chemical engineers racing pavement in the northeast lol.
 
If this is for a LO206 class, you are not getting enough oil in the cylinder to matter at all. In an LO206 the oil control and scraper ring are not detensioned like they are in other engines. If you are getting oil in the combustion chamber with an LO206 you have a serious problem with the engine and most likely hot oil is not going to overcome the loss of compression.
 
People are crazyyyyyyyyyy. Only if you knew the calls I get and people complaining about people cheating and the rumors. Last year at the Trinca race my drive was dqed for oil. If oil is questionable and the flame test is not 100% then there should be a 2nd test. I Hate rumors and I hate talking and the drama. If someone's oil is questionable in the KOASERIES then it's going to be sent out for the final results.
 
No, I get it. And as a competitor I appreciate tech. But as a competitive person I've never seen the need to intentionally cheat. Especially in kids classes. That teaches them nothing. But the winners win and the whiners whine. That's how it is in racing always has been.
 
The oil is not a big deal, where are they getting their power, its in the Gasoline, we have a well known Engine Builder in the South East selling
a fuel additive, you need a Special Digitron Meter to find it, it is about $80.00 per gallon. needs to be mixed at about 20-1 with gasoline.

It is, if you breathe it, several times, reputed the be carcinogenic,

Richard King
 
Richard said:
The oil is not a big deal, where are they getting their power, its in the Gasoline, we have a well known Engine Builder in the South East selling
a fuel additive, you need a Special Digitron Meter to find it, it is about $80.00 per gallon. needs to be mixed at about 20-1 with gasoline.

It is, if you breathe it, several times, reputed the be carcinogenic,

Richard King
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Your correct there getting power in the fuel, BUT don't fool yourself there getting it with oil additives as well, ever notice a racer that is say 5 th place kart and half way in boom he finds speed ( and you chalk it up to others falling off and his tires firing) yes that happens still but not as often as the oil additives kicking in.
 
racing promotor said:
Your correct there getting power in the fuel, BUT don't fool yourself there getting it with oil additives as well, ever notice a racer that is say 5 th place kart and half way in boom he finds speed ( and you chalk it up to others falling off and his tires firing) yes that happens still but not as often as the oil additives kicking in.
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oil additives in the clones is useless, like Jamie mentioned above.
Big gains in the fuel though and if you dont have track gas or a sniffer very hard to catch, now when we ran flatheads, oil additives were beneficial
 
IF we are talking about the 206 class, then look closely at the valve guides to see if they are knurled (=DQ.) I'm with Jamie, the ring package will never let enough oil additive by to help these engines.
Now, on the clone and alcohol animal classes, with low tension rings, conceivably "could" benefit from a hot oil additive. I honestly haven't tested to see if/what could be used and how much it helps. I know for a fact that there used to be oil additives used in the flatheads that would help after a few laps. I suppose access to that particular chemical is still possible. It is VERY dangerous to handle and illegal for most in the free world.
The gas additives have always been a problem -- which is why you constantly hear murmurings of spec fuel changing to alcohol for these gas only classes we have today.
As a tech guy, you'll see the same people asking to have their gas checked over and over and over again throughout the night. There IS a reason for that.
Not accusing anyone of cheating...but it certainly is easier to skirt the rules with gas than it is with alcohol.




-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
26 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
They can have their fuel tested as often as they want but if the track is using the new Digatron fuel tester and the limits are set tight enough, trying to mix and dilute fuel additives isn't going to give them any advantage based upon levels required to help them without being detected. I would say its a lot easier to catch cheaters on gas than methanol. Regardless of whether its gas or methanol a spec fuel needs to be used and fuel should be tested after heats and features, why only check after features when we all know starting positions in the features are a big advantage. I have tried for over 5 years to get Digatron to make a new fuel tester for methanol to no avail, they did make the new FT64 fuel tester and those who have used it for a period of time can get a feeling for those who are cheating on their methanol but its not a sure thing like it is on the gas, on gas it does even the playing field if the meter and proper test are applied. I was recently at a big event and seen no fuel tests done at all during heat races or qualifying, I didn't stay around to see what was done after features.
 
You could try blackstone labs, but since the testing you needs seems to be specific, I can't imagine it being much cheaper.
 
captnimo said:
They can have their fuel tested as often as they want but if the track is using the new Digatron fuel tester and the limits are set tight enough, trying to mix and dilute fuel additives isn't going to give them any advantage based upon levels required to help them without being detected. I would say its a lot easier to catch cheaters on gas than methanol. Regardless of whether its gas or methanol a spec fuel needs to be used and fuel should be tested after heats and features, why only check after features when we all know starting positions in the features are a big advantage. I have tried for over 5 years to get Digatron to make a new fuel tester for methanol to no avail, they did make the new FT64 fuel tester and those who have used it for a period of time can get a feeling for those who are cheating on their methanol but its not a sure thing like it is on the gas, on gas it does even the playing field if the meter and proper test are applied. I was recently at a big event and seen no fuel tests done at all during heat races or qualifying, I didn't stay around to see what was done after features.
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I test every time they come off the track, whether it be qualifying or heats and then feature. I think some of them get aggravated with me because if they are running multiple classes, I check them after every round of qualifying. Some of them say you just checked us after the last class and it's the same fuel. I say ok, let me check it one more time. :)

As far as letting them get their fuel checked repeatedly, that's a no no to me. Once they get their fuel checked and it passes, that's it. If they ask for numbers or how close, I simply tell them they passed. :)

It would be interesting to know if the OP is speaking of a particular engine package.

Thanks Mr. Grubb for the assistance with Digatron. I got my unit back today and the new style of attachment to the probe is MUCH MUCH better. :)
 
Well since everyone is so convinced that oil does not matter in a clone, and because no one ever checks oil. I think I will mix up and start running an oil that will make 6 tenths to 1.2 hp and literally kill the competiton. I do mean it will kill the competiton, as in melt their face shield off and put them in respiratory arrest. It may just kill you in a couple laps following me, or years down the road with cancer. But don't worry this could not possibly happen because oil can't get passed the rings anyway. Right? But then why are so many people selling oil that increases power?
 
XXX#40 said:
oil additives in the clones is useless, like Jamie mentioned above.
Big gains in the fuel though and if you dont have track gas or a sniffer very hard to catch, now when we ran flatheads, oil additives were beneficial
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Jamie said nothing about the "clone" engine. He was speaking specifically about the 206.

The subject matter of oil in a clone is an entirely different subject and concern.
 
Renegade said:
Well since everyone is so convinced that oil does not matter in a clone, and because no one ever checks oil. I think I will mix up and start running an oil that will make 6 tenths to 1.2 hp and literally kill the competiton. I do mean it will kill the competiton, as in melt their face shield off and put them in respiratory arrest. It may just kill you in a couple laps following me, or years down the road with cancer. But don't worry this could not possibly happen because oil can't get passed the rings anyway. Right? But then why are so many people selling oil that increases power?
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It's still unclear if Tony was/is speaking about the "clone" pr the 206. He has yet to answer that question.

Can anyone answer the question of which engine platform the KOA Series is using. One or the other? Or both?
 
Mostly Wka Animals and Flatheads. But I have a feeling he's referencing Lo206 a little more. I've personally dyno'd a lot of oils and saw very minimal difference in power. That was also through a wide range of Engine temps. I will note and this is something someone pointed out to me. You will see a difference once the motor gets warm and oil gets warm. Some oils produce better powers then others at a lower temp and some oils produce a better power throughout the engines temp cycle. Now, keep that in mind for a 30 lap race. "Hotter" or "Thinner" oil might be great for 5-10 laps but once it his it's peak temp it won't perform as well as say, a thicker oil. Food for thought. I've seen it on the Dyno I know what o perfer but that does not mean it's the best. I will also say I've never dyno'd "cheater" oil. Plus I would assume it would be low temp power gain hot temp power loss. I care to be there at lap 30 then lap 1.
 
Sorry guys, I just realized the post was still going. Im referring to all classes. Theres a lot of talk about people cheating with oil-chemicals added-then then burned off. Ive been accused of having illegal oil since I have oil made and sell it. My aniamal last year at a few races i was told oil was on the edge of being legal. End of last year at a money race My kart was dqed for oil after my drive time triald on the pole. I wasn't there, but was told it flamed up. Burn test was done 3 times, passed once failed twice. Steam never burned or flamed but when the flame was put in the oil the oil did. It was just FHS qualifying oil.
Since then I have created the KOA series, and to keep something like this happening again I wan the racer to have clarification if there oil fails the burn test as mine did. I found 2 labs. Black stone sent me kits for free. Its $50 to have a comparable analysis done, so you need to send them the oil fresh then what came out the engine. If anything has been added they can see it in the analysis report.
Another lab I spoke with terry dyson. Also a racer charges $150 But! he can tell you if any additive has been added and what chemical/additive was added. In the rules now for my series, if your oil burns or is questionable we can send it out for clarification and end the rumors.
 
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