Track Tac

Black flagging back markers at GoPro Motorplex

T

TechWest Racing

New member
Good evening All

We had something happen at the first GoPro Motorplex Kart Challenge race on Saturday. That I wanted to see if anyone had seen this happen at other tracks. During the LO206 SR final race, the black flag was given to 4 drivers with 5 to 6 laps left in the race because they were back markers. ( through no fault of their own) Because it was felt they might be lapped by the lead karts and could ruin their racing. Am I wrong, if all racers had to pay the same entry fees, spent the same time and effort to attend. Shouldn’t all racers be allowed to race to the checkered flag. This is something new for this year, I wanted to see if others have seen this else where. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Pat Collins
 
That should not happen unless that lapped kart was to take out the leader.. In most races the leader is the on ly one with flag protection..
BUT better yet go with Racecivers and the race controller can communicate with all drivers for a safer race for all..
JMO
JD
 
I'm confused, so the 4 drivers soon to be lapped were black flagged to get off the track to give the leader open space?? isn't that what the blue flag with the yellow stripe is for.. (move over let leaders pass)??
 
Raceivers are not the answer. The only time you should hear a voice on the raceceiver is under yellow or red flag conditions. Otherwise you have just added confusion to the entire field. You can hear but under racieng conditions will be hard to understand what is intended. I like the system for calling yellows and giving lineups, but not going to work to give inrace instructions. JMHO.
 
I would "assume" that this was spelled out clearly at the driver's meeting?

This is a common practice at a lot of big money dirt oval events. The idea is that they don't want a back marker to influence the outcome of the race and possibly cost the leader a shot at winning.

While it may have been no fault of their own as you suggest, if they had become a problem for the leader with a lap or two to go, it very well could have changed the outcome of the race.

With that said, I come from the oldschool way of thinking, that finding your way past lapped cars is part of racing. After all, in big car racing you will need to know how to negotiate lappers.

I guess if you knew ahead of time (ie drivers meeting, printed rules, etc) that the race would be flagged as such (black flag replacing blue/yellow flag), then there really is no argument.


-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
27 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Thanks for all the input guys! Brian it was a regional club sprint race no money involved just points. I have been in some form of sportsmen motor sports since 1984 and have always seen a Blue with yellow flag used not this. Plus with 5 to 6 laps left ( when this happened ) the back markers were at least 1/2 a track away from the lead pack. We had lot of out towners pitted around us that wanted to know if this was typical for GoPro Motorplex. This will kill the out of town attendance for the track!!!!
 
^ It may, or it may not. Again, begs the question -- was this addressed at the drivers' meeting or in print/web before hand.
That should have alleviated any confusion.

It's just a way that some kart races are being flagged now. Can be for reasons of safety or simply to give the leader a clean track. It's not uncommon at all, like I said -- it is more and more common at bigger money oval track shows, indoor races, etc where lappers can (and typically do) alter the outcome of the race.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
^ It may, or it may not. Again, begs the question -- was this addressed at the drivers' meeting or in print/web before hand.
That should have alleviated any confusion.

It's just a way that some kart races are being flagged now. Can be for reasons of safety or simply to give the leader a clean track. It's not uncommon at all, like I said -- it is more and more common at bigger money oval track shows, indoor races, etc where lappers can (and typically do) alter the outcome of the race.
Click to expand...

Sounds like all should get a participation trophy at the end of the race (sarcasm). Was planning to try a run at Go Pro in the near future. If this is the way they operate... maybe not. Especially when its a club race and no money is involved. Another example of some one trying to save us from ourselves.
 
racer47

Were not looking for a trophy, my son was working his way back up the pack and working on his race craft. He had the fangs out looking to move forward after being punted off. On to next race, Thanks for All the input it does help. Have a good one all!

Pat Collins
 
Did they black flag the back markers when the leader caught them or the pack caught them..
I was told the guy running our engine was approx. 20 seconds ahead by himself...
Either way not a good practice for a track..
Raceceivers are the best thing in racing since sliced bread.. Makes the race safer,, alert track conditions ahead on a road course,, speeds up caution time and can remove a driver for rough driving or warn them if doing something wrong..
 
racer47 said:
Sounds like all should get a participation trophy at the end of the race (sarcasm). Was planning to try a run at Go Pro in the near future. If this is the way they operate... maybe not. Especially when its a club race and no money is involved. Another example of some one trying to save us from ourselves.
Click to expand...

This mentality is a big part of the problem with the sport, you've lost touch.
 
Dover Power

Good morning Jerry, They black flagged All the back markers before anyone caught up to them. My son was 4 corners ahead of the lead kart when they black flagged him.

Pat
 
I could understand on dirt circle blacking flagging if you are about to or are a lap down. Sprint course a blue flag with yellow is all you need. They do not do this at AMP, course is large enough where normally that only is needed is if you spin out. They let you finish what you paid for. Would think your son would benefit the track time. Go Pro isn't to far from me but that body work rule has got me feeling some way...
 
I googled the track and also looked at pictures. Is it totally a pay to play place where you cannot bring your own kart?

If it is it's not a race track it's an amusement ride and they can run their amusement anyway they like. It's probably done to keep confrontation to a minimum and in turn insurance rates for the amusement park down. Though it may look like a race track, if it's pay to play it's no different then a country fair, any other amusement park or NASCAR. ... :)
 
TechWest Racing said:
racer47

Were not looking for a trophy, my son was working his way back up the pack and working on his race craft. He had the fangs out looking to move forward after being punted off. On to next race, Thanks for All the input it does help. Have a good one all!

Pat Collins
Click to expand...

You misunderstood my sarcasm. My point was toward the track wanting to be fair to the "leaders". This is racing, there are obstacles to over come. There should be "no" participation trophies given. You race the track as well as the other competitors. Lappers are as much of the race as a turn is. Figure out the fast way around without black flagging the future competition. No disrespect meant toward you.... only the track rules.
 
racing promotor said:
This mentality is a big part of the problem with the sport, you've lost touch.
Click to expand...

Do you black flag every lapped kart at your track? If so, how do the drivers ever have a chance to get better? Some people lose touch as to what its like to be a beginner or have shallow pockets. Mmmm no, I haven't lost touch. He paid to race. The tone of his post is that maybe they were new to the class or the track. When are they supposed to learn? On the 8 laps they get before they are in danger of being lapped? If his son was not holding anyone up or endangering anyone, he has a right to be on the track if he paid his entry fee. He has a right to finish out his race until the checkered flag is waved. How are they going to build a customer base if they black flag the people that cant run as fast until the learn the track, kart, or racing in general?
 
racer47 said:
Do you black flag every lapped kart at your track? If so, how do the drivers ever have a chance to get better? Some people lose touch as to what its like to be a beginner or have shallow pockets. Mmmm no, I haven't lost touch. He paid to race. The tone of his post is that maybe they were new to the class or the track. When are they supposed to learn? On the 8 laps they get before they are in danger of being lapped? If his son was not holding anyone up or endangering anyone, he has a right to be on the track if he paid his entry fee. He has a right to finish out his race until the checkered flag is waved. How are they going to build a customer base if they black flag the people that cant run as fast until the learn the track, kart, or racing in general?
Click to expand...

Guess I misunderstood you post, I took it like you were agreeing with the black flag, but would not attend because they pay no money, My bad I'm with ya on this post.
 
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Look, I'm not defending the track's decision or the whole idea of black flagging lappers.....but consider this:

If you're leading, and get taken out by a car that's off of the pace (I understand that may not have been exactly the case in this instance), how would you feel?
Furthermore, what constitutes a back marker, or slow enough to necessitate using the black flag versus a move-over flag? 1 lap down, 2 laps down?
Maybe that guy 2 laps down wanted to work on his chassis or driving lines as well -- hey, he paid his entry fee! Where do you draw the line? Ya know, there are no "lucky dog," free passes, whatever, here and you're not likely to race back to a podium finish from nearly a lap down.

Step back and think about this from both sides for a minute is all I'm saying.
Now as far as the argument that you need more track time...maybe that's a good reason to not be making your first laps in a points series or big money show. Maybe showing up the week prior for a local or regional event, or even a practice day, would be better served?

Nascar, Indy car, etc all have minimum speeds that you have to maintain -- with electronic scoring, maybe this is the route tracks should consider. Let the guy that was a victim of an on track altercation continue racing (1 lap or 10 laps down) as long as he is able to keep within 2% of the lap times of the leader? Just an idea.

Hey, I agree that dealing with lapped traffic is just part of racing, and learning how to negotiate the lappers is part of learning to race. I can't tell you the number of times that my young drivers have learned the hard way how NOT to pass a lapper when leading, but it's all part of their learning and we accept it. At big money shows or important points series, I can understand why the officials would want to protect the front runners from being accidentally (or otherwise) taken out by a lapped car.

And once again, I ask -- Was this rule spelled out clearly in the drivers' meeting or in print/web beforehand?
If so, then is there really a need for discussion (other than to vent frustration)?

Rise above. Lick your wounds, tough it out, and come back even stronger for the next event.
 
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