Track Tac

chassis lead on the right rear for adjustment..????

If you set toe in your kart leave the lock pin in push it 25 feet take not on end point... move just the rr of the axle rearward leave pin in steering lock start at same point and push 25 ft the cart will be more left of the first test due to rear tires are steering the kart more... I know you can’t drive with steering locked ... with the steering unlocked the front tires will have to be turned to the right on a straightaway to compensate from the rear wheels trying to turn/ steer the kart ....
 
XXX#40 said:
you move it back, once you start forward movement the front corrects its path and the axle has changed the offset in the kart, try it for yourself, square something off the rr tire to the front and measure the distance to the front tire, move the RR back, roll the kart back and forth then do it again.
you are thinking what it looks like in a static position, we dont race sitting still?
moving the rear axle back or forward has nothing to do with rear steer
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I feel like part of the problem is different racing backgrounds speak differently. The way Max26 is using trail/lead is exactly how we use the term in imca/usmts modifieds and late models. And if you push/trail the RR back it frees the car up just as everyone seems to agree on in this thread.
 
The wheel base changes constantly when you turn the steering wheel .
It makes no difference how the rear axle is set if you turn the wheel left. , the left gets shorter , the right gets Longer .
vica - versa when turned right .
Wheelbase is measured straight ahead in a static position .
I agree moving the axle will affect the handling , I do not think it creates rear steer .
If you had the ability to adjust it on the move then you would have rear steer .
 
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Max26 said:
If you set toe in your kart leave the lock pin in push it 25 feet take not on end point... move just the rr of the axle rearward leave pin in steering lock start at same point and push 25 ft the cart will be more left of the first test due to rear tires are steering the kart more... I know you can’t drive with steering locked ... with the steering unlocked the front tires will have to be turned to the right on a straightaway to compensate from the rear wheels trying to turn/ steer the kart ....
Click to expand...
Why would it move left when the rear tires are pointed too the right ?
 
racinnut15xm said:
I feel like part of the problem is different racing backgrounds speak differently. The way Max26 is using trail/lead is exactly how we use the term in imca/usmts modifieds and late models. And if you push/trail the RR back it frees the car up just as everyone seems to agree on in this thread.
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the rear end moves,under acceleration, stoping, cornering the rear axle moves as it moves it lengthens one side and shortens the other,(rear steer) that amount can and is adjusted, I raced on asphalt before I had a drivers licence at 15, at 19 I moved to a dirt latemodel so no the backgrounds arent different, karts are not sprung and the axle is held rigid huge difference
 
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flattop1 said:
Why would it move left when the rear tires are pointed too the right ?
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it doesnt, after about 5 feet the kart starts sliding the front tires trying to go where the rear tires are pointed, it creates a bound up problem that is cured when the front tires are squared to the rear axle, even if they dont reset toe, it happens on the track with over steering to the right, but they never notice it
 
The rear wheels are pointing to the right to make a tighter turn radius when the rr is pulled rearward .. have you ever seen a vehicle with 4 wheel steer? To turn left the front tires need to be turned to the left , the rear tires are turned to the right for a tighter turn radius. When you slide just the RR on a solid axle the rr tire will change it’s path to the right and also the left rear will turn towards the right. The effect of adding rear steer will make tighter turns with less effort. When you go down the straightaway with rr rearward the front wheels need to be turned to the right slightly and creates yaw... when move rr outward you are changing the relationship between the chassis and the tire, such as if you turn the steering wheel you are changing the relationship from tire to chassis. You are pointing the tires in a different direction other than square to the chassis...
 
Max26 said:
The rear wheels are pointing to the right to make a tighter turn radius when the rr is pulled rearward .. have you ever seen a vehicle with 4 wheel steer? To turn left the front tires need to be turned to the left , the rear tires are turned to the right for a tighter turn radius. When you slide just the RR on a solid axle the rr tire will change it’s path to the right and also the left rear will turn towards the right. The effect of adding rear steer will make tighter turns with less effort. When you go down the straightaway with rr rearward the front wheels need to be turned to the right slightly and creates yaw... when move rr outward you are changing the relationship between the chassis and the tire, such as if you turn the steering wheel you are changing the relationship from tire to chassis. You are pointing the tires in a different direction other than square to the chassis...
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last post, I really dont care.
Your RR bearing hanger is welded in place 1/4 farther back than your LR bearing hanger, all karts are built this way, and some will mistake that as just the wheelbase shorter on the left , its not, the axle is also offset to the right thus the term offset,(Yaw is built into the kart) the rear tires are offset to the right of the kart, when you move the rr back all your changing is the offset, it isnt rear steering, it changes the way the tires are loaded and how weight is transferred.
And im fully aware of what rear steer is, 40 years as a racer, and a lifetime around oval racing, your confusing a sprung rear axle that has the ability to move in all directions as the car pitches rolls etc, karts dont have that option
Look at this chassis. see the offset? see the rear axle farther back on the right than left? moving the rr back increases that offset
KART-ST-RIVAL-1.jpg
 
XXX#40 said:
it doesnt, after about 5 feet the kart starts sliding the front tires trying to go where the rear tires are pointed, it creates a bound up problem that is cured when the front tires are squared to the rear axle, even if they dont reset toe, it happens on the track with over steering to the right, but they never notice it
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As soon as the kart begins to go forward, the driver steers to the right to make the kart go straight. This is not "rear steer". Rear steer is when the driver hits the brakes and the rear axle pivots around its' centerline, acting like 4 wheel steering. Instead, the kart axle is now yawed, and the kart crabs down the track with a new and more left-nose heavy weight distribution. That is not "rear steer" in any full-size sense of the definition. In this example, the axles and tires have been changed 2° respectively...
 

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If you move axle left or right you are changing off set. When you move just the rr back you are pointing the tires in a different direction... you do not need suspension to steer a kart all you need to do is change the direction of the tire and that is steering... you change the direction on the front tires it turns ... you change direction on the rear tires it turns...
 
Max26 said:
If you move axle left or right you are changing off set. When you move just the rr back you are pointing the tires in a different direction... you do not need suspension to steer a kart all you need to do is change the direction of the tire and that is steering... you change the direction on the front tires it turns ... you change direction on the rear tires it turns...
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What you don't seem to be understanding is that moving the rear axle ONE TIME and leaving it there doesn't accomplish "steering." It simply changes where the rear centerline is relative to the front while the kart is in motion. Physics and kinematics don't lie. If you doubt us, go test it on your own kart. I'm done debating too...
 
center picture is how a oval kart is built, except the Rr tire is back farther.
totally different than the way a car or straight rail chassis is built
yaw_track_bar.gif
 
Ted Hamilton said:
As soon as the kart begins to go forward, the driver steers to the right to make the kart go straight. This is not "rear steer". Rear steer is when the driver hits the brakes and the rear axle pivots around its' centerline, acting like 4 wheel steering. Instead, the kart axle is now yawed, and the kart crabs down the track with a new and more left-nose heavy weight distribution. That is not "rear steer" in any full-size sense of the definition.
Click to expand...
 
Max26 said:
If you move axle left or right you are changing off set. When you move just the rr back you are pointing the tires in a different direction... you do not need suspension to steer a kart all you need to do is change the direction of the tire and that is steering... you change the direction on the front tires it turns ... you change direction on the rear tires it turns...
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again you move the axle in a KART left or right it isnt changing to offset, because you are not changing the mounting location of the axle all you are doing is sliding the axle left and right, offset is built in the the kart and adjustable very little, the rear quadrant of the chassis is offset to the right, a sprint kart is asymmetrical, but a dirt oval kart isnt
 
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Max26 said:
If you move axle left or right you are changing off set. When you move just the rr back you are pointing the tires in a different direction... you do not need suspension to steer a kart all you need to do is change the direction of the tire and that is steering... you change the direction on the front tires it turns ... you change direction on the rear tires it turns...
Click to expand...
God I give up, this is not a car you are dealing with, but have at it, and youll figure out just like the thousands that have figured it out, you are not the first to not get it, and you wont be the last
 
You have to steer it to the right to because the rear is steering it to the left ...you don’t have to go fast or hit the brakes... you will change the direction when you point the tires in a different direction ...
 
I have driven rear steer/ 4 wheel steer , opposite turning front and rear axles .
In the end your preception , your story .
You can tell it how you want .
 
flattop1 said:
Alright , one more thing ,
moving the axle left or right will change right front inset .
Click to expand...
nah just causes the axle to hang out one side or the other, the RR tire is almost against the frame rail no room to move left, mounting location will always be fixed on a kart
 
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