Box Stock

Clone Motors - Can Pandora be put back in the box?

Here's a 'truer' story (truer=true but not word-for-word accurate):

Son: Dad, can I spend $200 on a set of SS22's?
Me: Does that include shipping?
Son: I don't know.
Me: What's wrong with the tires you have now?
Son: I'm all over the track.
Me: Is your chassis set up correctly?
Son: I don't know.
Me: Have you talked to Miner's about checking your chassis set up? (Miner's Outdoor, Blooming Prairie, MN)
Son: No.
Me: So, you want to spend $200 on tires instead of $50 for Miner's to check your set up?
Son: Well, ya...
Me: (standing there just blinking....)

My son started karting with his Mom's bf several years ago. I ONLY went in to karting after his mother's bf 'left the scene' and my son wanting to continue... I never did let him buy the tires. He ran on 3 year old tires. Instead, WE (he and I) researched chassis set up and did the best we could with the meager tools at our disposal (it was a great father-son bonding experience). Here's the result of that:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150350309165334&set=t.687835333&type=3&theater

If that doesn't work, go to:
http://speednetdirect.com/points.php
56 speedway
Point Standings As of September 24, 2011
Junior 2 Alcohol

More than anything, I just wanted to share as it was a very proud moment for he and I. And scroll down further to 'clone lean' would be me finishing in 5th place my first year.

Thanks for reading.

Mike
 
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my son and I have been into racing for years...two years ago we got into karting and decided that we BOTH would be involved. he had school work on some race nights and finished 7th in the points battle. my rookie year was a little better....I lead the points for 3 months before engines cost me 20 points overall...and what place did I find myself at the end of the season you ask? fourth....20 points behind the track champion....either of the races that I missed would have given me the championship, but it wasn't to be. this year i'm going back to basics and either my son or I are going to do our very best to bring the championship to JM Racing! :)

so...after suffering from a stock motor against stock appearing for the first couple of races, I realized that the motor was an issue....second was getting the chassis set up right (meaning scaled and getting my numbers right)....third was getting tires that would grip the track and give me the run coming down the hill (diamonding the corners works really good!).....I wasn't the first to come up with the equation, but I am a firm believer in it!!!

and your right....use mike's need to stick together so that we don't get tricked into that "give it to mikey...he will eat anything" trick!!
 
Ok, can we just stop now and leave the 2014 updates permanent ?????? We have 3 with a soon to be 4th motor and I think my builder is great but I don't want to pay 1500 for one which is where this is headed unless somebody wakes up to smell the coffee soon !!
 
mikey56 said:
...use mike's need to stick together so that we don't get tricked into that "give it to mikey...he will eat anything" trick!!
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Never heard that before... lol!!!

Going back to basics is like taking a stroll through the good ol' times... No get rid of the bore gauge and get that tape measure! lol

No harm intended, but I forgot what this post was about...
 
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Jamie,

Can you imagine going to a 10 Grand or more to win race and someone comes out and says, "Ok guys and gals...we are going to have one weight for everyone. That's it, just ONE weight."?

Yeah ok.....300 entries to qualify. We take the top 30. Run one race and everyones goes home. LOL NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!!!

That would go over about as well as telling Honey Boo Boo she couldn't have anymore cake.
 
rebsfan4 said:
Jamie,

Can you imagine going to a 10 Grand or more to win race and someone comes out and says, "Ok guys and gals...we are going to have one weight for everyone. That's it, just ONE weight."?

Yeah ok.....300 entries to qualify. We take the top 30. Run one race and everyones goes home. LOL NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!!!

That would go over about as well as telling Honey Boo Boo she couldn't have anymore cake.
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Lol yeah there would be a riot
Ill say it again, some people need to venture out and really see whats going on in karting
 
miseed the boat on that one rebsfan4....different weights are always and will always be around. trouble is that too much emphasis is placed on weight. look at what you have....4th Annual "Frosty Wheels Winter Challenge"....19 classes to race....King of the Rock....14 classes...GMP 7th Annual Ice-Breaker....25 classes!! i'm not saying that every class will race one weight....i'm saying that you should COMBINE some of these classes into one with one standard minimum weight. That's all. Take for example Senior clone classes at one of the venues. Clone light is 330, medium is 350, heavy 375, super heavy is 400.....most will set thier kart to weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 380...then race in all three classes, if not setting it about 405 and racing in all of them. This is the part that kills me!! why have different weights if everyone is going to race in all of them? that's just plain dumb!! Have one weight standard and let them all race....give more money to the one class.....bigger classes equals bigger purses! that is a proven fact! adn to top that off, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the motor for all 4 classes!!

it's jsut something to think about....the tracks put on these shows that last from 8 in the morning until well after midnight....and i've read on here where some of the kids races don't even start until way late....and the last that i heard was one racer on here saying that he had a job to get to the next morning, so the adult classes needed to be run first and then let the kids have the track. THAT is narrow minded and stupidity at it's finest!! Let him race first so that he can go to work and have kids racing at midnight or later....what a real nice person!! yeah right.....

just thinkin outloud here!! don't let "it's always been done that way" cloud your mind to making things better for all.....
 
mikey56 said:
miseed the boat on that one rebsfan4....different weights are always and will always be around. trouble is that too much emphasis is placed on weight. look at what you have....4th Annual "Frosty Wheels Winter Challenge"....19 classes to race....King of the Rock....14 classes...GMP 7th Annual Ice-Breaker....25 classes!! i'm not saying that every class will race one weight....i'm saying that you should COMBINE some of these classes into one with one standard minimum weight. That's all. Take for example Senior clone classes at one of the venues. Clone light is 330, medium is 350, heavy 375, super heavy is 400.....most will set thier kart to weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 380...then race in all three classes, if not setting it about 405 and racing in all of them. This is the part that kills me!! why have different weights if everyone is going to race in all of them? that's just plain dumb!! Have one weight standard and let them all race....give more money to the one class.....bigger classes equals bigger purses! that is a proven fact! adn to top that off, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the motor for all 4 classes!!

it's jsut something to think about....the tracks put on these shows that last from 8 in the morning until well after midnight....and i've read on here where some of the kids races don't even start until way late....and the last that i heard was one racer on here saying that he had a job to get to the next morning, so the adult classes needed to be run first and then let the kids have the track. THAT is narrow minded and stupidity at it's finest!! Let him race first so that he can go to work and have kids racing at midnight or later....what a real nice person!! yeah right.....

just thinkin outloud here!! don't let "it's always been done that way" cloud your mind to making things better for all.....
Click to expand...

You really need to get out and see by your eyes whats happening, instead of listening to those who cry.
Most big races dont even have a lite class anymore, so you have medium, at 350lbs., heavy at 375lbs., and super heavy at 400lbs., and the driver has to weigh 200lbs for super heavy.
That leaves 2 classes for them to race in. You have a class for those over 35. And then kids classes, and 2 each for them if they like. Kids classes are split by age, 8-10, 10-12, and 13-15. And then theres also a rookie.
Now if we go by your set of rules, ages 5-60 will be in same class at the same weight, cant and wont happen.
 
these venues are not made up...they are currently posted on bob's and scheduled to run within the next few weeks. getting out and seeing is not necessary when the track is posting the information on here for all to see. your reading too much between the lines. there will always be class seperation by weight, by age, by status...whatever....the thing that i'm talking about is the NUMBER of weights WITHIN a given class. if you have a rookie class, then set the classes by ages with one weight class....say 5-8 year olds weigh in at 275, 9-11 weigh in at 300, 11-15 weigh in at 325....

it's not the classes themselves that are screwy, it's the way that it's broken down!!! the example that i gave was 3 classes (leave out super heavy)...each racer sets their weight at 380....and enters all three classes....what's wrong with this picture? how about ONE class with ONE weight....pay a little more for entry, extend the number of laps from say 25 to 30, and pay back a little more?

stop reading into everything that is posted and look at it for what it is. i don't need to get out to "see" the venues to know that 25 classes to race is way too many. that prolongs the show, tempers get the better of some folks and mom's and dad's have little ones that are racing at midnight or later.....

ok...so pandora is a b-word and she's out here creating havoc....she can be controlled if you put your mind to it and look at things with the idea to make things better. stop thinking "it's always been this way" and start looking at ways to make things better....better racing events, better classes, better conditions....but that will never happen as long as there are those that refuse to change or to open thier eyes to new things...

folks....this isn't rocket surgery or brain science....it's basic, elementary thinking. my dad always told us boys (i have three other brothers involved in racing) to stop driving off the end of our hood and LOOK at what's going on around us...
 
oh and one thing as a past tech inspector and track official that drove me nuts and i bet that some promoters will agree.....you have racer 'a' that enters into five different classes.....he come to you and cries that he needs more time to get things ready and you need to adjust the schedule so that he can race. double or triple the drivers that come to them at large events and the promoter now has a migraine with all the drivers yelling that they can't do this or that unless he gets off his duff and changes things to suit them.....and don't say it doesn't happen, because at one time or another all racers are racer 'a' wanting things changed to suit us....
 
mikey56 said:
miseed the boat on that one rebsfan4....different weights are always and will always be around. trouble is that too much emphasis is placed on weight. look at what you have....4th Annual "Frosty Wheels Winter Challenge"....19 classes to race....King of the Rock....14 classes...GMP 7th Annual Ice-Breaker....25 classes!! i'm not saying that every class will race one weight....i'm saying that you should COMBINE some of these classes into one with one standard minimum weight. That's all. Take for example Senior clone classes at one of the venues. Clone light is 330, medium is 350, heavy 375, super heavy is 400.....most will set thier kart to weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 380...then race in all three classes, if not setting it about 405 and racing in all of them. This is the part that kills me!! why have different weights if everyone is going to race in all of them? that's just plain dumb!! Have one weight standard and let them all race....give more money to the one class.....bigger classes equals bigger purses! that is a proven fact! adn to top that off, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the motor for all 4 classes!!

it's jsut something to think about....the tracks put on these shows that last from 8 in the morning until well after midnight....and i've read on here where some of the kids races don't even start until way late....and the last that i heard was one racer on here saying that he had a job to get to the next morning, so the adult classes needed to be run first and then let the kids have the track. THAT is narrow minded and stupidity at it's finest!! Let him race first so that he can go to work and have kids racing at midnight or later....what a real nice person!! yeah right.....

just thinkin outloud here!! don't let "it's always been done that way" cloud your mind to making things better for all.....
Click to expand...

While the Frosty Wheels races may have had 19 classes racing, believe it or not we started racing at 10-10:30 am sunday and finished before 2pm. We did the qualifying and consi races on saturday, starting at 10:30am and was finished by 6pm. Just because a race has alot of classes does not mean they will be racing for 12 hours, some promoters know how to keep things moving smoothly and keep the ball rolling so the racers are happy. Think about things this way mikey, things are the way they are in kart racing for one main reason, and that is because that is how the majority of racers want it to be. The majority of racers at these big events are teams that show up with several karts for each driver so they can run 3 or 4 classes and get the most money they can, otherwise they are just wasting their time and money. Most folks are beyond racing for fun these days, money is what brings the racers to the big events now, not fun. If there arent many classes or money in those classes, people dont want to take the time to even show up.
 
hvactech1998 said:
Ok, can we just stop now and leave the 2014 updates permanent ?????? We have 3 with a soon to be 4th motor and I think my builder is great but I don't want to pay 1500 for one which is where this is headed unless somebody wakes up to smell the coffee soon !!
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Build it yourself. Less than $500.
 
Weddle Racing said:
While the Frosty Wheels races may have had 19 classes racing, believe it or not we started racing at 10-10:30 am sunday and finished before 2pm. We did the qualifying and consi races on saturday, starting at 10:30am and was finished by 6pm. Just because a race has alot of classes does not mean they will be racing for 12 hours, some promoters know how to keep things moving smoothly and keep the ball rolling so the racers are happy. Think about things this way mikey, things are the way they are in kart racing for one main reason, and that is because that is how the majority of racers want it to be. The majority of racers at these big events are teams that show up with several karts for each driver so they can run 3 or 4 classes and get the most money they can, otherwise they are just wasting their time and money. Most folks are beyond racing for fun these days, money is what brings the racers to the big events now, not fun. If there arent many classes or money in those classes, people dont want to take the time to even show up.
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He doesnt get it that because classes are listed doesnt mean they will run that many, they are OFFERED, I have seen many times where we would register for lite and then get told before the race that since only 6 lites came in could we add weight and run medium with 15 more

Mikey needs to build a stock class engine and head off to a big race and get and inside view, when he misses a race by 1/100th of a second he'll understand how competitive stock class racing is

Indoor race many years ago, 60 guy's qualifying for 20 spots and I missed the field by 1/100th of a second in the second round of Q but if I would of made the first round my time was good enough for 6th lol, busted motor mount made me miss the first Q session

If I wanted fun I'd head off down to Gatlinburg and rent a kart lol I like competition
 
Many weight classes at smaller tracks/events is for nothing more then more entry fees. Motorama has 2 weight classes for the Jr.'s. We are going to run blue at 275 and 290lbs, will more then likely be no diff in speed and probally only 5 to 8 karts in each class. They just know that we (most everyone) will enter 2 classes so they double their money. 6 hour ride so you have to run as much as you can. But they also get you for $75 electric fee.
 
mopdog said:
Many weight classes at smaller tracks/events is for nothing more then more entry fees. Motorama has 2 weight classes for the Jr.'s. We are going to run blue at 275 and 290lbs, will more then likely be no diff in speed and probally only 5 to 8 karts in each class. They just know that we (most everyone) will enter 2 classes so they double their money. 6 hour ride so you have to run as much as you can. But they also get you for $75 electric fee.
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Not only that but you get LOTS more track time which is a bonus
 
mikey56 said:
these venues are not made up...they are currently posted on bob's and scheduled to run within the next few weeks. getting out and seeing is not necessary when the track is posting the information on here for all to see. your reading too much between the lines. there will always be class seperation by weight, by age, by status...whatever....the thing that i'm talking about is the NUMBER of weights WITHIN a given class. if you have a rookie class, then set the classes by ages with one weight class....say 5-8 year olds weigh in at 275, 9-11 weigh in at 300, 11-15 weigh in at 325....

it's not the classes themselves that are screwy, it's the way that it's broken down!!! the example that i gave was 3 classes (leave out super heavy)...each racer sets their weight at 380....and enters all three classes....what's wrong with this picture? how about ONE class with ONE weight....pay a little more for entry, extend the number of laps from say 25 to 30, and pay back a little more?

stop reading into everything that is posted and look at it for what it is. i don't need to get out to "see" the venues to know that 25 classes to race is way too many. that prolongs the show, tempers get the better of some folks and mom's and dad's have little ones that are racing at midnight or later.....

ok...so pandora is a b-word and she's out here creating havoc....she can be controlled if you put your mind to it and look at things with the idea to make things better. stop thinking "it's always been this way" and start looking at ways to make things better....better racing events, better classes, better conditions....but that will never happen as long as there are those that refuse to change or to open thier eyes to new things...

folks....this isn't rocket surgery or brain science....it's basic, elementary thinking. my dad always told us boys (i have three other brothers involved in racing) to stop driving off the end of our hood and LOOK at what's going on around us...
Click to expand...

Man you crack me up. This is going to sound mean and I'm sorry but, you really have no idea of the inner workings of these type events and what it takes to make them happen. Some of these competitors drive distances of 6, 8 to 10 hours to race at these events. Do you really think they want to do that much traveling to be on the track a bare minumum? Do you not know many these folks enter multiple classes for specific reasons OTHER THAN just because they are there? Do you have any idea the advantages to entering multiple classes at these type events? Many of these classes are precursors or warmups; if you will, to the up coming classes of higher importance. There's value in that to many people. And should they not have the right to pay for as much track time as they see fit?

To state that you do not have to get out and see these things first hand because they are written down in a forum here on Bob's for you to see, is quite frankly just absurd. I'm sorry but, it is. You have to be involved with it to fully comprehend it. Just reading about it or hearing about it doesn't truely educate you to the "fact" that there is a method to what you may view as madness. You have to get out and be part of it in same way, shape form or fashion to truely understand and appreciate how and why these type events are done the way they are.

You're trying to apply local Saturday night racing logic (Elementary thinking) to events that are paying out large amounts of money. It will never work like you have it invisioned in your head. If you think it will then quit talking about it repeatedly and set forth with a plan of action that will produce such an event run in the manner to which you speak. Show the karting world it can be done with a large scale event that draws hundreds upon hundreds of entries. I think you will be surprised at the number of disgruntled competitors or parents of competitors who want those extra WEIGHT classes for the track time. Or even worse, the number of people who don't show up at all for the simple reason they know they will not be available to them.

Your turn to kick the dead horse because there's use trying to put a saddle on him any more.
 
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