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Clone side cover bolts are JUNK.

R

rkcarguy

New member
When I started karting I quickly learned about the issue with clone side cover bolts via a seized motor in my 2nd race. Having raced cars and motorcycles for many years I applied Loctite and stayed on top of them with the torque wrench, but still noticed that I had to constantly check the side cover bolts and they would need an additional 1/4 turn every time. This shouldn't be happening.
Well when I took the bolts out after several races and re-torq's, I noticed they were about a mm longer than the new ones from the same new engine I had apart on the bench......and that the BOLT ITSELF HAD STRECHED causing the need for the constant re-torqueing. I grabbed an A/C bracket from a Honda Civic in my junk box and clamped it in the vise, bottomed out a clone side cover bolt in one of the holes and proceeded to spin the head right off the bolt with an air impact on #2. When I threaded a Honda bolt into another hole and did the same thing, the impact sat there and chugged on the bolt and it didn't break.
THESE CLONE BOLTS ARE MILD STEEL JUNK. You can safety wire, Loctite, fuel line, whatever you want, and the bolts are still going to stretch and not hold torque. Safety wire is WORSE, because it gives the illusion that the bolts are tight, when they are stretching and allowing the cover to come loose anyway. We've seen a couple safety wired engines still work loose and loose all the oil. The last 2 engines I've built, I bought black grade 10.9 flange head bolts from Fastenal, installed with Loctite and solid dowels and that was the end of the problem. After the first re-torque(assuming gasket squish), the torque wrench just clicks now and I don't even bother checking them anymore.

FYI I have bolts from a HF blue greyhound, Lifan GK-65, Hemi Predator, and the 420cc Predator and they are all the same soft JUNK bolts. I see too many new racers here posting about losing side cover bolts, its a sad introduction for a new racer to hear "oh you didn't hear about the side cover bolt issue?" after they've left a trail of oil and parts on the track. Lets sticky this please.
 
I believe that this issue with sidecovers coming loose has more to do with the way people are tightening their bolts than it has to do with the bolts themselfs. I have had over 20 engines since i started racing, and have never once had a sidecover come loose or the bolts back out and lose oil. The sequence that you tighten the bolts in makes a huge difference to how well those bolts stay tight, and i believe some of you guys may be over torquing your bolts or not tightening them in a sequence but just going around the cover and tightening each bolt one after another. I dont use locktite, fuel line, super glue, or whatever else it is you guys are trying to use, i just simply put the bolt in the sidecover, tighten it, and forget about it until the next time i pull the cover off. There is no reason that you guys should be having to mess with the bolts all the time like your saying, thats just crazy. I would look into your method of how you put your sidecover on and how you tighten the bolts.
 
Side cover bolts have a history even with the Honda engine, Not often but you would get a Honda that would shed it's bolts from time to time. Sorry it is not the fault of the majority, it is common for these engines present this problem. Even the best on here have battled this problem from time to time.
 
Weddle Racing said:
I believe that this issue with sidecovers coming loose has more to do with the way people are tightening their bolts than it has to do with the bolts themselfs. I have had over 20 engines since i started racing, and have never once had a sidecover come loose or the bolts back out and lose oil. The sequence that you tighten the bolts in makes a huge difference to how well those bolts stay tight, and i believe some of you guys may be over torquing your bolts or not tightening them in a sequence but just going around the cover and tightening each bolt one after another. I dont use locktite, fuel line, super glue, or whatever else it is you guys are trying to use, i just simply put the bolt in the sidecover, tighten it, and forget about it until the next time i pull the cover off. There is no reason that you guys should be having to mess with the bolts all the time like your saying, thats just crazy. I would look into your method of how you put your sidecover on and how you tighten the bolts.
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This is what I did the first time around, never used any of that Loctite or anything on my bikes so what is the problem I thought?
The only thing I can figure is we're on a large 18 turn asphalt track and really are really working the engines for 12-15 minutes a session, maybe more vibration and case flex?
The thing is, if you buy good bolts, you CAN do it this way and forget about it.
 
rkcarguy said:
When I started karting I quickly learned about the issue with clone side cover bolts via a seized motor in my 2nd race. Having raced cars and motorcycles for many years I applied Loctite and stayed on top of them with the torque wrench, but still noticed that I had to constantly check the side cover bolts and they would need an additional 1/4 turn every time. This shouldn't be happening.
Well when I took the bolts out after several races and re-torq's, I noticed they were about a mm longer than the new ones from the same new engine I had apart on the bench......and that the BOLT ITSELF HAD STRECHED causing the need for the constant re-torqueing. I grabbed an A/C bracket from a Honda Civic in my junk box and clamped it in the vise, bottomed out a clone side cover bolt in one of the holes and proceeded to spin the head right off the bolt with an air impact on #2. When I threaded a Honda bolt into another hole and did the same thing, the impact sat there and chugged on the bolt and it didn't break.
THESE CLONE BOLTS ARE MILD STEEL JUNK. You can safety wire, Loctite, fuel line, whatever you want, and the bolts are still going to stretch and not hold torque. Safety wire is WORSE, because it gives the illusion that the bolts are tight, when they are stretching and allowing the cover to come loose anyway. We've seen a couple safety wired engines still work loose and loose all the oil. The last 2 engines I've built, I bought black grade 10.9 flange head bolts from Fastenal, installed with Loctite and solid dowels and that was the end of the problem. After the first re-torque(assuming gasket squish), the torque wrench just clicks now and I don't even bother checking them anymore.

FYI I have bolts from a HF blue greyhound, Lifan GK-65, Hemi Predator, and the 420cc Predator and they are all the same soft JUNK bolts. I see too many new racers here posting about losing side cover bolts, its a sad introduction for a new racer to hear "oh you didn't hear about the side cover bolt issue?" after they've left a trail of oil and parts on the track. Lets sticky this please.
Click to expand...
This is 'old' news...and, lawnmower motors are quite 'happy' w/those bolts! What's disappointing is that it took 'years' too get a rule in place allowing replacements!!
 
Weddle Racing said:
I believe that this issue with sidecovers coming loose has more to do with the way people are tightening their bolts than it has to do with the bolts themselfs. I have had over 20 engines since i started racing, and have never once had a sidecover come loose or the bolts back out and lose oil. The sequence that you tighten the bolts in makes a huge difference to how well those bolts stay tight, and i believe some of you guys may be over torquing your bolts or not tightening them in a sequence but just going around the cover and tightening each bolt one after another. I dont use locktite, fuel line, super glue, or whatever else it is you guys are trying to use, i just simply put the bolt in the sidecover, tighten it, and forget about it until the next time i pull the cover off. There is no reason that you guys should be having to mess with the bolts all the time like your saying, thats just crazy. I would look into your method of how you put your sidecover on and how you tighten the bolts.
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Z....if you have that 'fortunite', you really need too start putting oil in ur engines...:)
 
screamn 2 said:
Z....if you have that 'fortunite', you really need too start putting oil in ur engines...:)
Click to expand...

Lol that was a one time mistake, and you can guarantee it will not happen again. I have no idea why i have yet to have sidecover bolts back out on me, or even see anyone have that issue around here either. It just has not been an issue anywhere around here for anyone that i know or race with unless maybe some of the Open racers have had this problem, but i havent even heard it from them either. I have a good friend who is a builder and does engines for many racers in this area and around the state, and he also said he has never had anyone mention the bolts coming loose or backing out. Maybe its like the guy said above and happens more on asphalt tracks than dirt tracks, due to the added stress put on the engines.
 
I built quite a few. I go up in 6 steps. criss cross all the way up. Never had bolts come loose. The hand full of times ive ran stock clone on sprint kart...It's just plain brutal on them in general.
 
I found that my engine was detonating and that was causing mine to back out every 10-15 laps....back that old timing off or have a good engine builder check for detonation with their meter
 
Here's a link that will tell you more than you ever want to know about fasteners and why they fail. http://brayfamilyracing.com/page29.html

rkcarguy is spot on, the stock Chinese-made fasteners are junk with a capital J. Think about an automotive engine like a small block Chevy. All assembled without the aid of lock washers or Loctite, even highly stressed fasteners like connecting rod and cylinder head bolts. I won't say never but how often have you seen a bolt or nut in a SBC fail or come loose?
 
I haven't had any trouble with them, maybe I'm just lucky. Have see this happen more often than it should at both dirt and asphalt tracks I run. I tend to think it 's the mechanic, but I guess when it happens to me, I will blame the bolts too.

I apply anti-seize (a little oil on the threads), use torque wrench to tighten bolt to specs in the proper pattern. Have seen Animal do the same, but know it was mechanic in that instance. If chain is too tight or you bend axle and stay out on track you are asking for trouble. I only use impact driver to disassemble, never tighten with it.
 
From what I have seen the problem is normally caused because the side cover gasket is too soft. When you torque it down and starts cutting through the gasket. Once the gasket fails the bolt is loose and if you did not let the Loctite cure the bolts will back off. The back side cover gaskets seam to be a little better than the green and the green is better than the grey. Hope this helps
 
I have not had this happen to me and run small opens 8800 to 9000 rpm
I use the black gaskets and high temp copper sealer too along with blue
loc tight.lucky maybe but have not had one come loose.
 
One engine of mine was fine. My other clone backed out 3 races in a row!!! Blue, red loctite. Oil on the threads. Torqued to spec. Saftey wires. Didn't matter. As a mechanic by trade the only thing I could think of was bolt was streching. Went with a bigger headed harder bolt and haven't had a problem since knock knock knock.
 
I've had many engines that never loosened the side cover bolts. I've had some that I couldn't keep tight using every trick in the book. Engine balance, as mentioned fastener quality, proper torque, proper use of fastener adhesive, good gaskets and other factors all can play a role. Good snug fitting (not loose in any way) side cover dowels seem to play a very important role also.
 
mikeincoppell said:
Here's a link that will tell you more than you ever want to know about fasteners and why they fail. http://brayfamilyracing.com/page29.html

rkcarguy is spot on, the stock Chinese-made fasteners are junk with a capital J. Think about an automotive engine like a small block Chevy. All assembled without the aid of lock washers or Loctite, even highly stressed fasteners like connecting rod and cylinder head bolts. I won't say never but how often have you seen a bolt or nut in a SBC fail or come loose?
Click to expand...
I have never seen a GM car or SBC that wasn't assembled without Loctite. They use Loctite just about everywhere except conn. rods and oil pump. and use a form of Loctite silicone sealant on the head bolts to help sealing and keep them from coming loose.
I use both studs and FIPG on my SBC heads also on my clone and Honda side covers and heads.
 
I think a lot of it is these engines were cheap and not balanced good, had a lot of vibration. Mine came loose breaking in. Put Loctite on and let it cured, fixed it.
 
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