Racing Engines are supposed too be dis-assembled. I do not know of any Professional engine builder that 'relays' on Loctite (of any type) too hold the engine together! That said...the level of abuse and lack of quality in these 'Clone' motors is a whole different 'challenge'! Utilizing good-quality 'studs' where possible in these motors preserves the threads from the endless assembly/dis-assembly of these things and in the end, you will most-likely still have the studs for re-use....w/ new nuts! I use 'blue' Loctite and torque the 8mm studs to 30in/lbs of which appears just enough too keep them affixed in the block when removing the nuts with my impact gun. JMO
Clone side cover bolts are JUNK.
- Thread starter rkcarguy
- Start date
Before 1953 most of us relied on Permatex #1 and#2 and used a lot of Indian Head Shellac on gaskets. With the higher coolant pressures after the first few years of SBC the racers used Permatex or in later yrs. RTV sealants to stop the coolant from creeping up the bolt threads and going into the crankcase . GM uses RTV from Loctite for the same reason. They use blue Loctite on Just about all the bolts from bell housings, intakes, water pumps to power steering mounts.
I don't use iffy bolts and I use a toque wrench that is calibrated often and I find a little RTV on the threads helps prevent rusted threads and makes it easier on removal. Steel bolts in aluminum should always has some form of sealant, Anti Sieze or rtv to prevent a corrosive reaction of the dissimilar metals. As I don't take my engines apart very often including my racing sbc 364 ci MRS mod or even my Honda 196 cc over 4 seasons on it. I like using sealants.
The bolts are a secondary problem in these engines, even a 4.4 rated metric bolt will resist a higher force than the crappy threads cut into the recycled aluminum frying pan block. These engines are not designed to be taken apart multiple times, they don't even expect them to be repaired. If I was a contractor and my water pump engine seized up do you think I would have it repaired or replaced. Many of the threads on the GX Honda engines are not cut prior to assembly if you look at the bolt it is self tapping, driven into a plain hole at the factory. Any steel bolt in and out of the Aluminum threads will enlarge and cause failure, we helicioled head and side cover holes and never had problems after.
"Ditto-That" (x10)
mikeincoppell
New member
This thread seems to have drifted (that's a first on this forum!). What started out as a discussion on crap bolts is now a discussion on sealants. For the record, sealants are good. Anti-seize is good. Loctite is good. Studs are good. But back to the original topic, stock Chinese-manufactured side cover bolts are junk and are not capable of the physics required to hold tension per Hook's Law. I'll agree the "recycled aluminum frying pan block" and side cover don't help and neither does the crappy gasket. Add in stresses and vibration the little motor was never designed for and you've got another problem. So there's a range of issues with keeping bolts tight on these motors. No surprise. But bottom line, no matter what you're clamping together if the fastener is junk it ain't gonna to stay tight.
If you want to test a bolt here's how. Take a block of steel and drill a hole in it the size of the bolt. Take your bolt and machine the ends flat on a lathe. Put the bolt in the hole and install a nut. Torque it to various values, measuring the length of the bolt with an OD micrometer each time. After the proper torque is reached, loosen it and see if it has returned to it's original length. If not it has been over-stretched and lost it's ability to remain under tension (stay tight). Do this with 8 stick side cover bolts and you'll end up with 8 bots each a different length.
If you want to test a bolt here's how. Take a block of steel and drill a hole in it the size of the bolt. Take your bolt and machine the ends flat on a lathe. Put the bolt in the hole and install a nut. Torque it to various values, measuring the length of the bolt with an OD micrometer each time. After the proper torque is reached, loosen it and see if it has returned to it's original length. If not it has been over-stretched and lost it's ability to remain under tension (stay tight). Do this with 8 stick side cover bolts and you'll end up with 8 bots each a different length.
to the o.g. post... im not one to want to raze build prices and have been known to cut corners to save some money when I can!!! but there are some things I spend the extra on... I wont go buy a fancy stud kit or anything like that!!! but for $20-25 max you can get head, side cover, valve cover, and flywheel cover bolts, lock washers and washers... worth the money to me... I make studs for my valve cover and flywheel cover and lock tight the stud in... one time and done!!! use reg washers and flange nuts on them... the head and side cover I use ether grade 8 or stainless with lock washers and lock tight... haven't had anything come loose cause of a bolt...
astrowrench
Member
But your playing Hell on the Block Threads,Time has a way of catching UP! But your valve cover & Blower housing will be Happy
Use the black side cover gasket frm DynoCams....apply a 1/16" bead of silicon around the bottom-half of the side cover (only)....position the gasket over the studs and dowel pins...install the side cover and secure w/flanged hex nuts (no Loctite)....torque @20in/lb increments in SOD (star-of-david) paterun to 190in/lbs. Heat cycle the motor 2-3 times and re-torque side cover to 200-205 in/lbs! "Works-4me"! Note: When installing the studs into the block, be sure too place the '(2) short-shouldered studs in the (2) top holes. I use 'blue' Loctite and torque them to 30in/lbs.
Send that too the 'Steering Committee' Bennie....
The Stud Kits are probably the Best form of insurance you can buy for these things! I like your idea of 'studing' the other areas, but....it's NOT legal in 'Box-Stock'....
one thing not mentioned is the chance the side cover is cutting the gasket. I have had it happen. It will seem that the bolts are coming loose but the gasket is getting cut from the flex of block and lack of quality gaskets. I took some sand paper and knocked the sharp edge off the rib on the side cover.
A lot of the side covers I have seen since have a pretty sharp edge on the sealing surface. May or may not be the cause on your engine but it fixed my problems. I reused stock bolts and original dowel pins in a hot stock appearing.
A lot of the side covers I have seen since have a pretty sharp edge on the sealing surface. May or may not be the cause on your engine but it fixed my problems. I reused stock bolts and original dowel pins in a hot stock appearing.
crankincraig
New member
Trying not to wander too far off , With it being mentioned that the threads in the block would be the first failure is it leagal to install helicoils for the sidecover?
Thread repair using helicoils is AKRA legal as long as original thread size and pitch are retained.
'Stoney'....we know this is 'another-silly' rule, don't we? Also...in several cases I have re-tapped/chased the (2) chain guard mtg holes to 5/16-24! I gather that 'could be' grounds for DQ....Rgt?
"screamn 2" .... based on your past history under another username, it doesn't come as any great surprise that "you" would consider it as such ... there is no "we" .... my reply post wasn't intended to placate you, but rather to answer the posters question regarding the legality of helicolils to repair a stripped block/sidecover thread ... the futility of trying to engage you in rational discussion has already been demonstrated
The poster's question was in reference to the legality of using helicoils to repair a stripped side cover thread ... not the repair of a stripped chain guard thread/hole .. although "technically", yes, the same ruling would apply.
Just pull'n ur chain Stoney, but....this is another one of 'those-rules' that leads too "Why"? However, admittedly we are stumbling forward.