Track Tac

Corner Exit Speed

It was defined for you personally many many times both recently and years ago but again your memory conveniently fails you.
Can you post from on here where anybody said "conditions must be just right"?


Use normal gear ratios for the class and track your running:

Large momentum track larger driver.
Smaller and less of a momentum track you'd go to smaller driver.
 
MikeleoneCT said:
Low cross setups are faster going into the corner, but lazy coming off.
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I think what you wrote is very interesting and it's new to me. I would like to learn more about it and how/why it is so. My mind just filled up with reasons why what you said can be correct and nothing so far making me think other wise.

Would you mind if I started a new thread dealing with it and trying to learn more about it from you and others?

With your permission I would reference you and your input of it in the thread is that ok?

paul

Right now I'm strongly feeling it's one of those things gained from years of experience and want to learn more.
 
Don K said:
To the OP; it sounds like you are very close to a great setup. I believe to get to the absolute best drive out of the corner the timing of the left rear is key. This is where caster/camber detailing is critical. Small adjustments go a long way.

DK
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Don if you could/wouldn't mind going into some more detail about caster/camber adjustments with me, you can PM me if you would like but I'm very interested in learning more what to be looking for and doing with those adjustments.
Thanks
 
paulkish said:
It was defined for you personally many many times both recently and years ago but again your memory conveniently fails you.
Can you post from on here where anybody said "conditions must be just right"?


Use normal gear ratios for the class and track your running:

Large momentum track larger driver.
Smaller and less of a momentum track you'd go to smaller driver.
Click to expand...
And if the track really grips up gaining speed a lot of times you'll increase front driver size by 1, my 1/8 mile for a day race would start out at 11 sec laps early practice, then features would be high 8 sec laps, a lot of guy's would end up 2 front driver sizes bigger than normal for a Friday night race.
Point being it's not all based on track size.
 
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I had a problem getting off the corner once when my RF setup on the kart was a bit off. I was blazing fast everywhere but off the corner. Kart seemed to drive great, just lost a little speed off.
 
paulkish said:
I think what you wrote is very interesting and it's new to me. I would like to learn more about it and how/why it is so. My mind just filled up with reasons why what you said can be correct and nothing so far making me think other wise.

Would you mind if I started a new thread dealing with it and trying to learn more about it from you and others?

With your permission I would reference you and your input of it in the thread is that ok?

paul

Right now I'm strongly feeling it's one of those things gained from years of experience and want to learn more.
Click to expand...
There is no in general to this, a low cross set up is always lazy on exit, or opposite high cross always pops off the turn, best exit speed is all about timing of weight transfer with maximum grip. It is true as long as the RF holds up a high cross set up will end up faster on exit.
 
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To OP with only 200 rpm drop or less keeping same ratio with 1 front driver size less will not help you, as your somewhat gear bound now, and it will just carry over, now take 1 tooth for sure probably 2 off the rear then lower front driver size by 1 keeping that ratio, that might get it done. But I'd try it first leaving front same pull 2 off rear.
 
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gcashwell said:
I had a problem getting off the corner once when my RF setup on the kart was a bit off. I was blazing fast everywhere but off the corner. Kart seemed to drive great, just lost a little speed off.
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What was off with your RF ? camber , caster , or both, and which way little low or high ?
 
racing promotor said:
There is no in general to this, a low cross set up is always lazy on exit, or opposite high cross always pops off the turn, best exit speed is all about timing of weight transfer with maximum grip. It is true as long as the RF holds up a high cross set up will end up faster on exit.
Click to expand...


thank you
 
Don K said:
To the OP; it sounds like you are very close to a great setup. I believe to get to the absolute best drive out of the corner the timing of the left rear is key. This is where caster/camber detailing is critical. Small adjustments go a long way.

DK
Click to expand...
I'd agree with this 100 %, but keep in mind his drops were 200 and less which confirms the timing and set up has to be real close, 98 % close, so in this case first small adjustment I'd look to is gearing and pull some off the rear. With that being said in most cases you would look to what DK points out.
 
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paulkish said:
I think what you wrote is very interesting and it's new to me. I would like to learn more about it and how/why it is so. My mind just filled up with reasons why what you said can be correct and nothing so far making me think other wise.

Would you mind if I started a new thread dealing with it and trying to learn more about it from you and others?

With your permission I would reference you and your input of it in the thread is that ok?

paul

Right now I'm strongly feeling it's one of those things gained from years of experience and want to learn more.
Click to expand...

I don't mind if you start a new thread, but I won't participate. I can't defend or explain why this was true on my kart and don't have the desire to argue about it. As I've said here before, I can only explain it as "magic" . Same as the smaller driver/same ratio observation. We raced on many asphalt tracks in many different divisions that had very close competition. Only by observing our kart relative to other very similar performing karts could I discover the effect of different driver size and in hi/low cross set ups. Neither of these factors made us faster on the watch, only where we were faster on the track relative to other karts thus where we might be able to pass them. This is especially true in the lower divisions where our competitors hadn't or refused to figure these things out.
 
MikeleoneCT said:
I don't mind if you start a new thread, but I won't participate. I can't defend or explain why this was true on my kart and don't have the desire to argue about it. As I've said here before, I can only explain it as "magic" . Same as the smaller driver/same ratio observation. We raced on many asphalt tracks in many different divisions that had very close competition. Only by observing our kart relative to other very similar performing karts could I discover the effect of different driver size and in hi/low cross set ups. Neither of these factors made us faster on the watch, only where we were faster on the track relative to other karts thus where we might be able to pass them. This is especially true in the lower divisions where our competitors hadn't or refused to figure these things out.
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Thank you very much. I may still start a thread on it because I am on my first coffee this morning and you got me thinking on it again.

I 100% agree and think I personally from experience watching stuff on tracks shair in believing in "magic" on the track.

I'm lucky enough to get to talk to and shair observed "magic" with many top names in the dirt oval business. All of which except two seem to unload to me and my unloading of on track observation. I don't know but think they talk to me about "magic" stuff because they may not have anyone else to talk to except some old man who occasionally wanders by because of not wanting to give away setup strategy or even perceived secrets to others they race against or may some day take their job from them.

I don't intentionally pass on between them what I've learned from their competition I only talk about my observations and yes my theories. You wouldn't believe what is shared with me under the belief all of those at the top of the game do understand and have a grip on things. Frankly I think when they do have a conversation with me though they are already towards the top of the dirt oval racing food chain or at the top, the result of our conversation and my logical way of leading into new areas will put things over all back together again for them.

It seems that their whole racing program takes a turn in general for the better after getting to talk to an old man stranger who blends how stuff works together.

I know some of them read on here and will recognize this when I say it. No matter how much things just seem to work together it's so easy to be wrong about something racing I'm always insecure about my theories and am always looking for an acknowledgement of my words being correct. My so often asked question of does that sound right is almost always answered back to me by "your 100% correct".

I think your post is 100% correct. ... now after all of that BS I hope maybe someone on the top of the food chain will try my chassis improvement idea and find out it works. ... :)
 
I agree 100% with Don K. Also, I agree with Mikel on the low cross. Momentum with the gear is also a consideration. Going smaller on the clutch will slow your momentum. If you can for instance go up say 1 tooth on the driver and 2 on the rear gear it will help your momentum.

Again, it could be a number of things as a lot have suggested on here.

Mike
Understanding Chassis Theory and Dynamics
 
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