Track Tac

engine protest procedures

I sure will tell I wouldn't race at that track. Why? Because I'm not of the delusion that I "have" to. I know I have (had) every choice in where I chose to race. Now I have a choice in where I choose to tech.
 
rebsfan4 said:
You keep harping on this "top secret" stuff without acknowledging or seemingly understanding that not all builders set their engines up the same. That stuff you have no right to see. Not sure you are so adamant about your rights to.
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Brian (Bryan) if the protester views the tech procedure as a non-participant from behind a line say 5' away, what is he going to be able to see that you're so nervous about? Maybe when I was 20 I could read a micrometer from 5' but that's still a maybe. Definitely not today/ Same for calipers. So let's assume the witness can only see parts being measured but cannot see the readings. He sees the springs being tested, they either pass or fail. "Stock" parts are visually inspected and either pass or fail. The cam is checked and either passes or fails. Timing? Non tech. CC text? Pass or fail. I'm still not in my widest imagination seeing what could be learned from only watching a simple little single cylinder motor being checked to see if it complies with the rules or not. Rules that are known to all involved. I've asked you several times before for an example but still no answer. Must be because there isn't one.
 
mikeincoppell said:
Brian (Bryan) if the protester views the tech procedure as a non-participant from behind a line say 5' away, what is he going to be able to see that you're so nervous about? Maybe when I was 20 I could read a micrometer from 5' but that's still a maybe. Definitely not today/ Same for calipers. So let's assume the witness can only see parts being measured but cannot see the readings. He sees the springs being tested, they either pass or fail. "Stock" parts are visually inspected and either pass or fail. The cam is checked and either passes or fails. Timing? Non tech. CC text? Pass or fail. I'm still not in my widest imagination seeing what could be learned from only watching a simple little single cylinder motor being checked to see if it complies with the rules or not. Rules that are known to all involved. I've asked you several times before for an example but still no answer. Must be because there isn't one.
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Well there's ole Mark. How you doing Mark? Mark apparently you think I'm under some sort of obligation to answer you. I'm not. And I will not. Now if you wish to assume there isn't anything in specific that can be observed, then I guess you have that right.

I will give you a hint, read post 50 & 51. Apparently I'm not the only one you can bug on this.

Apparently you believe I'm one of those guys who doesn't allow anyone in the tech room. I'm not. When have you ever saw me say no one is allowed? I've said that it isn't anyone's inherent right that they are allowed in. Apparently you have confused me making such a statement for how I run my tech. I've simply stated people don't have the inherent right to "look" at anything. They are allowed to observe the tech process and do nothing more than insure it is being done. And done correct.

All that other mess you keep throwing up is pointless and means nothing. Now go read post 51 And let it sink in just a little.
 
I can't tell you how many phone calls and e-mails I get on Monday and Tuesday after a week end of racing from people who were not satisfied with the tech that took place. I hear some horror stories from people that were in tech and didn't like the way tech was done. I get calls and mail from people " who heard this" about the tech guy and want to know if what he did was right. Now, if people are calling me just what do you think they are telling their buddies at the track or in conversation about the tech. Darn straight that rascal of a tech man didn't do things the way someone else thought they should have been done. Case in point. In the last post on this topic a short while back in another thread, there was a guy come on here and stated that he saw the techman checking cc with the valves beginning to open and he wanted to know if that was the correct procedure. Then later in the thread he comes on and tells us he builds engines. He was an onlooker and got something started. To many perceptions on how it should be done but the way it is done is by the man doing it that has the certification. We listen to people complain all the time and run us down for not doing things right. It is for that reason there should be only one representative observing the tech. Another set of eyes can cause the mouth to run in a negative fashion towards a person who has stepped up to make thing as fair as possible. Walk a mile in our shoes before making judgement!!!
 
racer47 said:
You seem to assume that the "protester" that you speak of is at all tracks. People are different. Not everyone reacts the same just like not everyone will agree on who should or should not be in the tech shed. Yes, some will be agitated and some will take it for what it is and move on. Way too many assumptions being made. I have never raced in Pa. but Im not going to assume that everyone there will react "half cocked". My opinion, tho different from yours, is this: If I finish second in a race that pays over a couple of hundred dollars and protest 1st place, I expect to be able to watch the process. If Im not allowed to, I will then cancel the protest and not race at a track where things go on behind closed doors. Me personally have no secrets so deep that I would let anyone question my integrity.
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Not trying to be a Smart A** but you don't wanta come to Pa, your not gonna like the Procedure.
 
dynodon said:
i can't tell you how many phone calls and e-mails i get on monday and tuesday after a week end of racing from people who were not satisfied with the tech that took place. I hear some horror stories from people that were in tech and didn't like the way tech was done. I get calls and mail from people " who heard this" about the tech guy and want to know if what he did was right. Now, if people are calling me just what do you think they are telling their buddies at the track or in conversation about the tech. Darn straight that rascal of a tech man didn't do things the way someone else thought they should have been done. Case in point. In the last post on this topic a short while back in another thread, there was a guy come on here and stated that he saw the techman checking cc with the valves beginning to open and he wanted to know if that was the correct procedure. Then later in the thread he comes on and tells us he builds engines. He was an onlooker and got something started. To many perceptions on how it should be done but the way it is done is by the man doing it that has the certification. We listen to people complain all the time and run us down for not doing things right. It is for that reason there should be only one representative observing the tech. Another set of eyes can cause the mouth to run in a negative fashion towards a person who has stepped up to make thing as fair as possible. Walk a mile in our shoes before making judgement!!!
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amen !!
 
racer47 said:
Maybe now you see my point. Not everyone has your tech man. Some tracks that I have been too dont even have A tech man. Therefore the trust issue.
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You make the choice to go to those tracks. Why get on here and complain about it? Your complaints would be better directed at the owner/operator of the tracks you CHOOSE to visit which have no tech. Gather your peers and make a stand against those tracks or continue to CHOOSE to visit those tracks knowing what to expect. No one on here can make these tracks have proper tech. That is up to you and your racing peers.
 
rebsfan4 said:
You make the choice to go to those tracks. Why get on here and complain about it? Your complaints would be better directed at the owner/operator of the tracks you CHOOSE to visit which have no tech. Gather your peers and make a stand against those tracks or continue to CHOOSE to visit those tracks knowing what to expect. No one on here can make these tracks have proper tech. That is up to you and your racing peers.
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Have you ever thought that maybe someone doesnt want to drive 3 hours to a track? Maybe tire rules dictate which tracks are available to race? Maybe the track itself is great, and the people are great, but not enough money in the track's budget to afford a full time tech staff?

Once again, these are scenarios that people all over the country face. Don't be so narrow minded to think that every track and every driver are the same. What works in some areas will not fly in other. Some places have tracks 30 minutes apart. Other places are much further apart. YES, I have a choice. But this really all started because someone arrogantly posted that the protester does not get to see the tech process. I merely wanted to know why. Then it became obvious that this person doesn't know what racing is like all over the country. I was just trying to put out some scenarios where that thought process is not a good idea. Im not trying to be argumentative. I was just trying to get someone to open their mind to the thought that its not the same everywhere.
 
Sir, the only thing in life you have that truly belongs to you is choice. That's not being narrow minded. That's being realistic. No matter how many scenarios you throw at Ken and/or Don, the way they perform tech at their track and/or their tech shed still has no bearing on where you openly and freely choose to race. And yes, it is your choice.

Ken hasn't stated the way he runs his tech is the way it SHOULD be done everywhere. He simply stated that's the way it will be done at his track. And provided reasoning for it. The way other tracks perform tech have no bearing on him just as the way he performs his tech has no bearing on you. Why the persistence in trying to get him to see things through your eyes. The way tech is performed at his track is irrelevant to the way tech is or isn't performed at your tracks.
 
personally, i agree that you have to check out the track BEFORE you go so that you know what's what.....but truthfully, i don't care to be over the tech man's shoulder and reading all the guages and whatnot....all i want to do is be there, sitting in the back, watching as it's teched, not interupting or asking questions....i jsut want to make sure that when i pay the money for an engine to be torn down, that it is indeed torn down and teched properly. i could care less about the numbers or the lift, or the springs...or whatever! as long as i can see that it WAS checked is good enough for me.

i think that the "no one can be in there" rule isn't fair....because it imparts rumors and whispers of track favorites getting away with things and not being honestly teched...that's what i can abide by....not knowing that it was done properly and that i wasn't allowed to watch and make sure that my protest was done right....

not arguing because every track is different and has different rules in place....jsut saying that as the person protesting, i would appreciate being there to witness....only to witness....if the protestor interupts or starts anything, then throw them out and declared the protest over....simple rules for simple procedures...

sometimes we all make things a lot harder than they need to be...can i can understand why some tracks have a "no one in the tech shed" rule...because too many times, some irate racer will get in there and cause more problems than carter has pills!! and those guys are the ones that you want to punt in the pebbles and send home to mommy.......
 
Many people Find That Democracies are troubling. I mean it's like, everybody gets to put in their $.02 worth. People constantly looking at the decisions their representatives are making and then maybe disagreeing, or questioning those decisions. There are countries where the leaders have just gotten tired of being scrutinized all the time and have done away with democracy. It's so much easier when nobody can question you. Trust me they say, I have your best interest at heart. There is no reason for you to look at what I'm doing, every decision I make will be in your best interest. I know what I'm doing, I need no scrutinizing.

It's so much easier to rule when you can't be questioned. Fortunately, in the United States, we don't do it that way. At least that's what it says in the Constitution and the 1st 10 amendments. I like that 1st one a lot.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
the United States of the Offended.....you can't say diddly squat without offending someone....and then they try to sue you for emotional distress, loss of quality of life and some other nonsense....

just saying, we all have the right to question and to agree to disagree...but sometimes (and yes, i've been jsut as guilty as the next guy!)... we all go a little overboard and a little too verbose in what we say and what we mean.

TRUST ME....isn't that the politically correct way of saying "screw you"??? just asking!!!
 
i deal with engineers on a routine basis...not only is the glass too big, it was probably filled from the wrong side....
 
winnerscircle said:
There is the right way, the wrong way and my way. Is the glass half full or half empty? To an engineer the glass is to big. LOL
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The terminology depends on the direction of the change in volume of the liquid. It has nothing to do with your outlook on life. Trust me, I’m an engineer.
 
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