Front spindle question

B

bullerman

Member
Setting up my 2006 Laser. I am close on my nose and left side numbers CKI gave me but I am off a good bit on cross. In adjusting for cross does it hurt for you right front to be almost all the way down and the left from to be way up. Seems like every kart I have had I I trouble getting what was recommended for cross.
Was just wondering if the spindles were like this would it put the front of the kart in a bind or mess with the steering.
I am about 1 1/2 percent light on left side percent and I have a good bit of weight on the left side of the seat. I may move the seat a hair to the left today. I would think I would want it to where I have weight on both sides of the seat and my percentage is about what's called for. Don't know but I was wondering about the spindles. If needed I can post my whole set up.
 
There's no issues with having the spindles buried to get the cross, however with an 06 Laser, im curious as to what cross number they gave you?
 
If you can afford it, why not buy spindles with the axle at a different height and different camber? Why can't the manufacturer build a kart with their recommended corner weights already incorporated into the kart? Or close. When you buy a new kart, what are the corner weights? How much camber? When you're going to a track you've never been to before, why couldn't you call a manufacturer and asked for a spindle that would put you close for that track? More expense, I know, but it seems to me it would help you with your problem.
I would like to hear from somebody who had, like you, a lot of weight on the left-hand side of seat. Does it really make any difference versus both sides of the seat?
 
bullerman said:
Setting up my 2006 Laser. I am close on my nose and left side numbers CKI gave me but I am off a good bit on cross. In adjusting for cross does it hurt for you right front to be almost all the way down and the left from to be way up. Seems like every kart I have had I I trouble getting what was recommended for cross.
Was just wondering if the spindles were like this would it put the front of the kart in a bind or mess with the steering.
I am about 1 1/2 percent light on left side percent and I have a good bit of weight on the left side of the seat. I may move the seat a hair to the left today. I would think I would want it to where I have weight on both sides of the seat and my percentage is about what's called for. Don't know but I was wondering about the spindles. If needed I can post my whole set up.
Click to expand...
Post your entire set up, and numbers they recommended.
 
alvin l nunley said:
If you can afford it, why not buy spindles with the axle at a different height and different camber? Why can't the manufacturer build a kart with their recommended corner weights already incorporated into the kart? Or close. When you buy a new kart, what are the corner weights? How much camber? When you're going to a track you've never been to before, why couldn't you call a manufacturer and asked for a spindle that would put you close for that track? More expense, I know, but it seems to me it would help you with your problem.
I would like to hear from somebody who had, like you, a lot of weight on the left-hand side of seat. Does it really make any difference versus both sides of the seat?
Click to expand...
No it does not make a difference if most to all the weight is on the left side of the seat.
 
alvin l nunley said:
If you can afford it, why not buy spindles with the axle at a different height and different camber? Why can't the manufacturer build a kart with their recommended corner weights already incorporated into the kart? Or close. When you buy a new kart, what are the corner weights? How much camber? When you're going to a track you've never been to before, why couldn't you call a manufacturer and asked for a spindle that would put you close for that track? More expense, I know, but it seems to me it would help you with your problem.
I would like to hear from somebody who had, like you, a lot of weight on the left-hand side of seat. Does it really make any difference versus both sides of the seat?
Click to expand...

Because different weight drivers, tire brands, etc will completely change the camber and weight settings, do a manufacturer couldn’t build spindles with certain cambers and cross weights
 
JPMKarting said:
Because different weight drivers, tire brands, etc will completely change the camber and weight settings, do a manufacturer couldn’t build spindles with certain cambers and cross weights
Click to expand...
I was a manufacturer at one time, I don't agree. I can't think of any reason why I couldn't build spindles with varying degrees of camber. Same goes for spindle axle height!
I designed a spindle yoke that used inserts that could change the camber by 5°, with any multiple in between that you wanted, and 3°, plus or minus caster,, also with any multiple that you wanted. Just change the insert for the situation.
As I remember, most have their camber set somewhere in the range of 2 to 3 1/2°. Mostly in half inch increments. Not everyone, but mostly. That's only 4 different spindles, if you change camber by 1/2° increments. Doesn't seem like much of a hardship on the racers! I could be wrong.
 
alvin l nunley said:
I was a manufacturer at one time, I don't agree. I can't think of any reason why I couldn't build spindles with varying degrees of camber. Same goes for spindle axle height!
I designed a spindle yoke that used inserts that could change the camber by 5°, with any multiple in between that you wanted, and 3°, plus or minus caster,, also with any multiple that you wanted. Just change the insert for the situation.
As I remember, most have their camber set somewhere in the range of 2 to 3 1/2°. Mostly in half inch increments. Not everyone, but mostly. That's only 4 different spindles, if you change camber by 1/2° increments. Doesn't seem like much of a hardship on the racers! I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

You could build a -2.5 spindle for example, but when a driver that weighs 130 lbs sits in the kart, that camber (-2.5) is going to be different then a 250 lb driver. Same goes for spindle axle height. A 130 lb driver might have 66% cross, where a 250 lb driver will have 61% cross. Not to mention, all this also changes with various tire brands, staggers, and air pressure

You can’t possibly build a spindle combinations for all scenarios. Why buy extra parts when you can raise or lower a spindle with a washer, or adjust the camber with a heim joint. It’s not cost effective or sensible
 
flattop1 said:
They could easily build what you want . They dont want too . They want what the chassis was designed with . It was common practice twenty years ago .
Click to expand...
Sad, but, apparently, true. You would think they would want to build what the customer is willing to buy. It comes down to the same sad fact; if there's no demand, there's no supply. I can't remember ever hearing anybody say anything about buying custom spindles. Not even a mention of how nice it would be if somebody made custom spindles.
Perhaps it's up to the manufacturer to create a demand?
 
alvin l nunley said:
Sad, but, apparently, true. You would think they would want to build what the customer is willing to buy. It comes down to the same sad fact; if there's no demand, there's no supply. I can't remember ever hearing anybody say anything about buying custom spindles. Not even a mention of how nice it would be if somebody made custom spindles.
Perhaps it's up to the manufacturer to create a demand?
Click to expand...
I would think what they currently are putting out with adjustable front ends are what most customers are willing to buy, there are custom spindles out for very low cross or very high cross, but even with those guy's still want the adjustability.
 
High cross , low cross and standard would be easy . Camber changes or lead , lag a bit more complicated . The fact you can adjust camber considerably now with a heim joint kinda negates it as well .
Factory drivers can get parts that others can't .
There is also if it aint broke don't fix it .
 
The fact they have gone to a short barrel limits the cross changes as well .
Though there is still room .
 
JPMKarting said:
If anything, the shorter barrel gives more cross adjustability
Click to expand...
Thats possible . Less room to adjust the spindle on the barrel was the point . which may lead to more adjustability with the short barrel .The old setups the wheel would contact the king pin in certain situations.
There are lots of things that effect cross . The op states not enough left . Thats a factor . No telling what stagger , air pressures , cambers , wheel offsets or scale setup is . An 06 chassis could be bent .
Scale setup is very important . Your making cross adjustment with 1/16 th washers . If the scales are out of level an 1/8th , thats a big effect .
 
alvin l nunley said:
Sad, but, apparently, true. You would think they would want to build what the customer is willing to buy. It comes down to the same sad fact; if there's no demand, there's no supply. I can't remember ever hearing anybody say anything about buying custom spindles. Not even a mention of how nice it would be if somebody made custom spindles.
Perhaps it's up to the manufacturer to create a demand?
Click to expand...

Trick/Olimpic is probably one of the only manufacturers that sell a wide variety of custom spindles. They have, probably 6-8 different KPI spindle and castor block combinations.

The majority of manufacturers build a low cross, standard, and high cross spindle, along with 1 or 2 different KPI angles. Outside of that, theres nothing else I can achieve that adjustable heims and washers wont get me
alvin l nunley said:
Sad, but, apparently, true. You would think they would want to build what the customer is willing to buy. It comes down to the same sad fact; if there's no demand, there's no supply. I can't remember ever hearing anybody say anything about buying custom spindles. Not even a mention of how nice it would be if somebody made custom spindles.
Perhaps it's up to the manufacturer to create a demand?
Click to expand...

Trick/Olimpic is probably one of the only manufacturers that sell a wide variety of custom spindles. They have, probably 6-8 different KPI spindle and castor block combinations.

The majority of manufacturers build a low cross, standard, and high cross spindle, along with 1 or 2 different KPI angles. Outside of that, theirs nothing else I can achieve that adjustable heims and washers wont get me
 
The frame could be bent for all I know. If a frame was bent how would you know.
I moved my seat a little. I am going to try and resacale today. I am working with bathroom scales and a utility room floor. Far from perfect but it's the beat I can do.
Just for someone to figure. I will weigh 365lb. Laser said 58 1/2 left. 46 nose and 65 cross. How much weight should be on each wheel. I have heard there is a app for this but I can't find it. Thanks
 
bullerman said:
The frame could be bent for all I know. If a frame was bent how would you know.
I moved my seat a little. I am going to try and resacale today. I am working with bathroom scales and a utility room floor. Far from perfect but it's the beat I can do.
Just for someone to figure. I will weigh 365lb. Laser said 58 1/2 left. 46 nose and 65 cross. How much weight should be on each wheel. I have heard there is a app for this but I can't find it. Thanks
Click to expand...

2 things...

1. Are the scales accurate?
2. Do you have the scales perfectly level?

If the answer to either of those is no, then theres really no point in speculating.
 
Have you used a level on the scales ?
Your using 4 ?
You have a helper to record the numbers ?
Pretty hard to tell if bent /tweaked with out previous numbers or knowledge
Of its treatment .
And what Jp said .
Get it close leave a couple washers of adjustment and race .
 
Yes my floor is not level. I use shims on two of the scales to get the level with the other two.
My wife reads the numbers for me
She does good.
I don have any previous numbers.the guy I bought it from was a really big guy. I know he said he could never get as much nose weight as he wanted.
I just wanted to try and get it close to what Laser said. I don't know if I need as much cross as they said. They told me 65%. I will keep working at it and hope to get to race at some point. I am running out of time. I will be 74 in August. I am actually just starting back.
 
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