Gyroscope Affect

jp81 & Terry
I think you are right.
The reverse torque engine could be of some benefit on LTO karts.

The next question is how to make a kart with enough HP to lift the front wheels turn on corner exit?
 
HIYA Jimbo that is easy we used to have a class called MC for motorcycle class. The fast guys used the old 400 and 500 cc 2 strokes on alky and THEY could lift the front wheels on a good track. (black groove tacky track).

Those things were wicked, (;-) TP
 
Interesting that the chain was brought up in this post. The chain is essentially a object that is influenced by the speed that it moves at. The initial weight never changes but the amount of energy that it stores at high rpm is relative. Always think of the chain as a inertia mass added to the reciprocating total mass of the engine! The higher the speed of the engine in rpm equals higher inertial energy of the chain, even though the weight of a 140 link chain never changes in base weight. The mass of the chain develops more energy the faster it spins!

A good example it to break a chain and put a small punch through the roller pin hole. then start to spin the chain around in a circle in front of you. the faster you spin the chain the more your wrist and arm will move as Momentum develops. After you get the chain to spin try to stop the chain, not moving arm or wrist you will notice the chain continuing to spin even though you have not applied any force to counter the movement. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion. At ChainDragGone we count on this kinetic energy to help a kart get off a corner and continue down a chute. This may seem like a small portion to deal with in regards to using energy, but managing it surly helps when all of the little pieces are working as a whole.

Scott@chaindraggone.net
 
I was using a push behind leaf blower yesterday. I was amazed at how much easier the thing was to push as it ran out of gas. It spins clockwise to you when you are behind it. I thought of this thread and thought id share.
 
Logan,
I am with you about the leaf blower. I was at a golf course in GA. and they had a unit pulled by a golf kart that looked like a jet dryer they use at Nascar tracks. It was not very big but it cleared the pine needles & cones along with the leaves on a fairway in record time. It was so precise the way it worked, that they came along and vacuumed up the row on the edge of the fairway and I thought they were going to make small straw bales out of it. Some one was thinking about what to do with the byproduct for ground cover around their plants and other presentations around the course. And ya they had gators in some of their ponds so no ball snagging if you missed a shot LOL.
Scott@chaindraggone.net
 
I rode a BMW motorcycle that had the engine mounted perpendicular to the frame. I do remember that when you revved the engine, the bike would have a fairly strong pull to the side. Felt really strange. I don't remember noticing any effect it had on cornering.
 
Honda turned there motor in the recon 4 wheeler back in the late 90s. Made it much easier to ride a wheelie and took the torque fex out of the frame. Really smooth ride.
 
Hawkeye79.. correct me if I'm wrong but I think BMW did that with some of their track bikes because increased cornering. They had a boxer style engine like a subaru and I believe it works since I see some of the new bikes have the same thing.
 
Guys would use reverse rotation engines (small block Chevy) in World of Outlaws sprint cars years ago. It definitely flexed the frames differently and affected handling. I never owned one, personally, but know of some guys that ran them for a while. For whatever reason (probably cost) no one is doing this currently.
I believe some tractor pullers with multiple engines still use reverse rotation engines. Look at some of the two wheel drive tractors and trucks and how much the frames twist when really hooked -- even the old front engine dragsters launched with one wheel hiked higher in the air than the other.

Mounting the engine sideways would be interesting to say the least on how it affects handling.

I used to have time for fun side projects like this. :)

Good luck, Jim!



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Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
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bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
I saw Small Block Dirt Modifieds with Reverse rotation over 20 yrs. ago, Not quite as hard as some used to think, Mercruiser Marine engines are available in L. and R. rotation.
 
It was with a direct drive sprint car, Jack. :) Meant a special rear end as well. Winters offered them. I know Joe Gaerte and the Wimmer team ran them for a while.
 
For small diffs, check out the current UTV offerings on eBay, or modify a shaft-drive motorcycle's rear wheel casing...
 
I'm pretty sure there is a difference between gyroscopic effect and rotational torque,, just something to think about?
 
When I was 14 or 15 (many moons ago!!!) I ask Jerry Soltz why he did not locate engine mount to the side as most factory chassis are and he gave me a long explanation about how important having rotational weight from the engine being as close to the rear axle as possible, I wish I would have paid more attention but there must be some advantage
 
Jimbo said:
I'm not sure a chain and sprocket is any more efficient than a differential. Maybe some one else has that data.
Usually in and open class it isn't HP that wins in fact i'll take a kart that gets through the corners over a little HP any day.
In fact that's true of most kart racing.
Click to expand...

Back in the day Margay had a differential on there karts that had a quik change set of gears in the back. They only ran them for a year or two, some of the vintage guys can sound in on this. I was told by one guy that they were considerably slower than chain and sprockets so they did away with them. I just found this information on them:
http://www.margay.com/shopmargay/Safari-Gear-Box-Gear-Set.html
Kind of neat looking at the old stuff, check out the bottom of this page and look at the Concept Sprint I chassis. Look at the frame rails go up the side of the seat and then angle down to the axle with the nerf bars from the middle of the seat to infront of the rear tire.
http://www.margay.com/shopmargay/Vintage-Nassau-Panel.html
 
Jimbo, to answer your question about jet engines, whether its a turbo jet, fan jet, or otherwise, yes they do have "torque roll" when accelerated just like any other rotating assembly. Fighter jets with twin engines all rotate in the same direction no matter how many they have, however the induced "torque roll" is far less significant that it was with the radial piston engines of days gone by. It does not come into play with controlability of the aircraft as the surfaces are much more powerful than the minimal input the engines generate. How much gyroscopic effect they have while running I have no idea, but I am sure its pretty significant as there is alot of weight rotating at significant RPM.
 
Not exactly on the subject, but WWI airplanes, like Spad, Nieuport and one German plane had rotary engines, 2-stroke, crankshaft bolted to fuselage and prop on the cyls., rotation of cyls. made A/F mix flow outward to combustion chambers. No throttle just wide open with a kill switch, sure made them sound funny, like the engine was sporadically quitting.
 
in jet engines its really insignificant.. ge's and pratts turn one direction, rolls turns opposite.. tq roll is a issue for helo's.. not so much airplanes or karts... just sayin..... as Rabid said.. its more of a issue when you have big blades driven by a engine, theres a formula for it... try Google.....
 
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