Box Stock

How in depth do your tech officials go?

Burris Racer said:
I respect that and don't have an issue with my engine being looked. I feel confident that my builder is giving me a legal piece to race with.

I read Don's article and in my experience the tech officials I've dealt with met the criteria noted in the article. Although I've assembled several Dover kit engines, and never experienced any issues with them, I'm not an engine guru. If you were going to tear me down to the level shown in your attachment on an engine that had a few races on it for let's say $100 I would decline tech and forfeit. If the engine was getting close to being due for a rebuilt or the pay day was >$300 I'd likely say have at it.

The deal with the angle on the valve seat and not pulling the head had me wondering how often are people having heads pulled or the bottom end torn down. Another thing that would be interesting to know is on the more invasive tech procedures why did tech take it that far?
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That's why it's more cheating going on now day's to simply because people have a hiss fit & throw a temper tantrum when they suppose to get tore down but yet they end up not because of the fit. The cost is no more than it was back in the flathead days & them days regular & money races you went home in a box completely tore down & nobody said a word even when alot of times it was just for a trophy & no money involved plus be there till 3 or 4 in the morning. Nobody said a word because everybody knew it was gonna happen every race. Now day's everybody wants to pitch a fit if the carb comes off of it. I say take tech back to them day's & let the crybabies whine all they won't to.
 
B&B Performance Engines said:
That's why it's more cheating going on now day's to simply because people have a hiss fit & throw a temper tantrum when they suppose to get tore down but yet they end up not because of the fit. The cost is no more than it was back in the flathead days & them days regular & money races you went home in a box completely tore down & nobody said a word even when alot of times it was just for a trophy & no money involved plus be there till 3 or 4 in the morning. Nobody said a word because everybody knew it was gonna happen every race. Now day's everybody wants to pitch a fit if the carb comes off of it. I say take tech back to them day's & let the crybabies whine all they won't to.
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Made me proud to walk out of the tech barn in a 📦, with that check in my pocket, and a smile on my face.
Racing has changed like everything else, a lot of guys racing that would do good to change their own oil.
No fault of their own, it just wasn't passed down like Boomer to GenX, more of a fear someone other than the builder touching it, and no clue how to put it back together themselves
 
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My first win I got third place…follow along this story will add to this
They teched the top 2 and they failed tech on all 3 items they checked. So I had to be teched. I passed tech on all 3 items and I had the biggest smile on my face. Dont get me wrong it is still scary getting teched even when you know you have never done anything illegal to it it is still nerve racking but I passed tech and in order to go back to my trailer we had to go past the cheaters trailer and we were all smiles and I had to collect the cash and feature winner poster thing from them and that was the best feeling in the world. I was mad I didn’t beat them but hey I won and was legal doing it! But it was a good feeling walking by them and knowing I passed tech and they cheated and I was excited to go home with my motor apart because I knew I was legal. They didn’t tear me down but we had the flywheel off and carb off but hey I beat ‘em! It was just fun when we were all celebrating walking past the cheaters. Funny thing is is that there karts were hooked up to the track and my kart was all over the place and I was legal and they were cheating and yet we were still only 5 feet apart😂
 
XXX#40 said:
Made me proud to walk out of the tech barn in a 📦, with that check in my pocket, and a smile on my face.
Racing has changed like everything else, a lot of guys racing that would do good to change their own oil.
No fault of their own, it just wasn't passed down like Boomer to GenX, more of a fear someone other than the builder touching it, and no clue how to put it back together themselves
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Totally agree 1000% with you on that. The big unlimited funds pockets is the ones that pitch a fit more now day's to. It's unreal how many complain when they hear the word getting tore down now. Might as well tear the rule books up & make all classes RWYB because it's close to that now anyway with the way tech is now.
 
Burris Racer said:
I respect that and don't have an issue with my engine being looked. I feel confident that my builder is giving me a legal piece to race with.

I read Don's article and in my experience the tech officials I've dealt with met the criteria noted in the article. Although I've assembled several Dover kit engines, and never experienced any issues with them, I'm not an engine guru. If you were going to tear me down to the level shown in your attachment on an engine that had a few races on it for let's say $100 I would decline tech and forfeit. If the engine was getting close to being due for a rebuilt or the pay day was >$300 I'd likely say have at it.

The deal with the angle on the valve seat and not pulling the head had me wondering how often are people having heads pulled or the bottom end torn down. Another thing that would be interesting to know is on the more invasive tech procedures why did tech take it that far?
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Shame on AKRA for writing in more engine rules than Indy cars have and then be so unwilling to even unbolt a rototiller motor to actually check it.
 
XXX#40 said:
Made me proud to walk out of the tech barn in a 📦, with that check in my pocket, and a smile on my face.
Racing has changed like everything else, a lot of guys racing that would do good to change their own oil.
No fault of their own, it just wasn't passed down like Boomer to GenX, more of a fear someone other than the builder touching it, and no clue how to put it back together themselves
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Yep....back in the 80's when we first started, it was MY job, EVERY Sunday to completely disassemble my engine and check everything. COMPLETELY DISASSEMBLE. I was 13 when we started racing. Now days you'll be lucky to find someone who even knows how to remove the head and be able to put it back on to torque specs.
 
Again I'm not an engine guy. I have enough knowledge to assemble an engine but choose to pay a professional when it comes to that. If the cost to ship and reassemble is more than the winnings I'm further ahead to leave it alone.

To the performance engine guys out there help educate me on what areas of the engine would you look at to if you suspected it to be illegal. My understanding is the carb would be one of the biggest gains. I have no issues with a carb being torn down as I have no cost in putting it back together. Next I would think is the cam. I believe everything that is checked (lift and duration) on the cam can be done with it fully assembled. The cc check and valve springs can also be done assembled. Obviously the same goes for fuel and oil additives. I'm open minded and want to learn so please help me understand what else there is to look at that gives a measurable performance advantage?

I don't want anyone to think I'm against tech. I actually appreciate the process and feel that there could be more. What I'm not into is calling someone a cheater b/c they didn't pass tech. If there's wear and the lift goes out of spec that doesn't mean somebody cheated. Yes, they should be DQ'd for being out of spec but that make them a cheater. Same if there's a scratch on the butterfly. It's been "modified" so you're DQ'd but it didn't make a difference why you finished where you did.

I don't know where you all race that you're seeing so much cheating in the clone classes. I've raced in OH, KY, TN, NC, SC, and GA and never lost a race and thought it was b/c the people in front of me were cheating. Therefore whatever tech was done or not done was adequate for me. In the cases that I know of people being tossed in tech it was scratch on a butterfly and lift as mentioned above. I would have a hard time saying I won if somebody was a pound light on the scales or had an engine infraction that didn't have a measurable effect on performance but was out of spec. The truth is they were better than me that day and lost on a technicality. I agree they should lose as the rules are binary. Either you're in spec or you're out of spec.
 
rebsfan4 said:
Yep....back in the 80's when we first started, it was MY job, EVERY Sunday to completely disassemble my engine and check everything. COMPLETELY DISASSEMBLE. I was 13 when we started racing. Now days you'll be lucky to find someone who even knows how to remove the head and be able to put it back on to torque specs.
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This is absolutely the truth. Most time if the engine builder isn't there when it gets tore down they running around trying to find somebody that will go in tech with it. If you that scared or have no clue about tearing one down then ya don't need to be in the sport to begin with. Everybody should be wanting to go in tech to learn what goes on & what the rules are & how they handled.
 
B&B Performance Engines said:
If you that scared or have no clue about tearing one down then ya don't need to be in the sport to begin with.
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I think many will agree that most races are won with tires. Using your logic we should visit our tire and chemical manufacturers to gain a thorough understanding before we head to the track. The same goes for a clutch. The engine won't be much good without it.

I can't understand your point of view on this one. In fact, based off of your screen name, I would think you'd have quite the opposite view to raise the value of your product and knowledge.
 
DynoDon said:
You are out in left field my friend. Shame on builders for violating the spirit and intent ruling.
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Spirit and intent is the first rule really.

All the others are clarification of how the first rule is defined. Compared to known stock part is another vague rule.
Technically, blueprinting would violate spirit and intent when most classes started. In the interest of making everything more equal, blueprinting was allowed, which opened need to define dimensions without leaving this to judgement of tech persons. There are still plenty of areas for this type of calls.
Since there are now dimensions, a defined method is needed to check said dimensions. Finding a way to get around the check method could be called a violation of spirit and intent.

Almost any tinkering could be defined as a violation of the spirit and intent rule. Can be just a catch all.

Now, not checking at all after defining these points is just as much a violation of the spirit and intent as any out of spec part.
 
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Spirit and Intent
Even if you are new to karting you have heard the term “spirit and intent”. It is the concise description of how karting is run, pure, simple and undeniable. It is not some politically correct catch phrase that has its day and then fades away. It is the law governing the
sport of karting for more than 50 years. It means that you may be judged based on your perceived spirit and apparent intent for your conduct at any time at the track. Indeed, you should judge yourself using the same criteria. The law of spirit and intent comes into effect when race officials are encountered with facets of karting not specifically addressed in the rulebook. At this point, officials must make decisions based not only on fact, but also on whether the infraction was a clear case of attempting to controvert the spirit of the event. It is many times the hardest decision for an official to make. Nobody likes to invoke the spirit and intent rule.
We urge you avoid causing a spirit and intent ruling by being fully aware of all the regulations that apply to you and your kart. It is impossible to write a rule for every aspect of karting. Before attempting modifications to your kart that are not specifically addressed in the rulebook, talk to the technical inspector and clarify the requirements. You should “intend” to compete successfully, but if your “intent” is winning by circumventing the rules, then you should reconsider your involvement in this sport.
 
DynoDon said:
You are out in left field my friend. Shame on builders for violating the spirit and intent ruling.
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Yes shame on builders for their misguided spirit and intent but most of us look at rules and enforcement the same as everyday laws and penalties we all live by. We expect broken laws to be enforced by the people representing the law. Track owners and evidently AKRA officials are afraid to do this.
 
DynoDon said:
I don’t know what you are complaining about you don’t race clones
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I quit racing predators to move to clone, I have mentioned it in several posts. Smokey Yunick is synonyms with Spirit and Intent. I'm not complaining and I think you misinterpreted what Flattop and I understood. They made a lot of rules based on what Smokey did because of Smokey's interpretation of Spirit and intent.
That being said. Winning is a drug and racers are addicted to it and will do, what they got to do, to get their fix. . the only reason prepping tires is such a big thing is because nobody thought to make a rule against so many years ago. but mark my words... somebody wiped something on their tires because it didn't say you COULDN'T. and that's why we do it today
 
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