Box Stock

How in depth do your tech officials go?

karting is one of the few motorsports that allow adding chemicals to tires and has the largest industry around it. The only other racing that I am aware you are allowed to dope tires are in Slot cars and RC cars both of which I consider to be toys.
 
"J'-remy said:
karting is one of the few motorsports that allow adding chemicals to tires and has the largest industry around it. The only other racing that I am aware you are allowed to dope tires are in Slot cars and RC cars both of which I consider to be toys.
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Toys that you can put more money in than karting.
The craze now is 1/5 latemodels
 
DynoDon said:
Spirit and Intent
Even if you are new to karting you have heard the term “spirit and intent”. It is the concise description of how karting is run, pure, simple and undeniable. It is not some politically correct catch phrase that has its day and then fades away. It is the law governing the
sport of karting for more than 50 years. It means that you may be judged based on your perceived spirit and apparent intent for your conduct at any time at the track. Indeed, you should judge yourself using the same criteria. The law of spirit and intent comes into effect when race officials are encountered with facets of karting not specifically addressed in the rulebook. At this point, officials must make decisions based not only on fact, but also on whether the infraction was a clear case of attempting to controvert the spirit of the event. It is many times the hardest decision for an official to make. Nobody likes to invoke the spirit and intent rule.
We urge you avoid causing a spirit and intent ruling by being fully aware of all the regulations that apply to you and your kart. It is impossible to write a rule for every aspect of karting. Before attempting modifications to your kart that are not specifically addressed in the rulebook, talk to the technical inspector and clarify the requirements. You should “intend” to compete successfully, but if your “intent” is winning by circumventing the rules, then you should reconsider your involvement in this sport.
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That said, (and I full agree with you, Don:) How many times have you (or anyone else you've seen at the track) DQ'd someone for violating the "spirit and intent" rule?
I can very easily say "0," ZERO.

A good example of spirit and intent violation is when an engine (Predator, LO206, etc) have all engine parts right on the max/min measurement (min. valve length, min. piston weight, max. stroke, min. CCs, max. spring dimensions, etc.) for peak performance, all done through hand picking of parts...yet we all know that they never come that way collectively on a single engine from the factory. These engines still do not get DQ'd in tech due to the "spirit and intent" rule because the tech man cannot prove, beyond a doubt, that those parts "couldn't" have come that way by random chance. Which is why we need so many rules and measurement on parts to declare something legal or illegal. Personally, I'd rather go just by the measurements - that way I can confidently tell the competitor that his engine is legal or illegal and physically show them where. Telling them that they violated the "spirit & intent" rule wouldn't end well.

I realize why the spirit and intent rule exists and realize that we aren't always dealing with builders/racers who are above the board in the honesty and integrity department.


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🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
33 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
I'm a newly minted four cycle tech for enduro kart racing. Animal and 206 to be specific, dabble in some two cycle.
I appreciate Dons Responsibilities posting and other tips for tech inspectors.

It is a nearly thankless task and the not for the thin skinned. It is impossible to please everyone. I cannot, will not, speak of the events commented on here. I was not there and its not my circus.

I know many of the racers for many years that I have and will be inspecting. I know that their tuning skills for track set up are far superior to most racers... this is where speed is no matter what class you are in. That is the beauty of a spec engine class, all you need do is maintenance, there is no pipe of the week, unicorn spark plug, Uncle Sigmund's Atomic fuel additive.

As for what do I look for, that is classified. Actually and truthfully it is not - all the details are clearly spelled out, there are even pictures.

My favorite question is "What are you going to tech?" "What ya got?" is my reply.

I heard a complaint my tech was not through enough. Speaking for myself - it was from the people who lost, not the winners. There are multiple factors, time being the most challenge. Face to face I get compliments and appreciated for the task, I ain't in this for the money that's for sure.

You throw a fit because I want to tear into your engine - Done, disqualified for unsportsmanlike conduct. I can say I have never seen one yet and that's how it should be.

I am here to validate your win and each and everyone of you equally suspect and worthless. ;)

Good luck out there!
 
B-man said:
You throw a fit because I want to tear into your engine - Done, disqualified for unsportsmanlike conduct. I can say I have never seen one yet and that's how it should be.
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B-man said:
I am here to validate your win and each and everyone of you equally suspect and worthless. ;)
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In the dirt oval world, you'd better be ready to defend yourself after a comment like that...
Ah worthless?
 
For the record I appreciate the "fair" tech person. I personally would like to see tech and claiming being done a little more. Tech not only stops the cheating but it also silences those who always cry foul and cheater.
I remember the first time i put up the money to tech someone who was legal, a humbling experience many a racer needs.
I would like to personally thank Tater Petty our tech person who's put my motor through the ringer more than once. it shows my wins are my hard work not me cheating.
I also appreciate people like Colin Chapman, Smokey Yunick and Jim Hall who were innovative in the Spirit and Intent of the game
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
That said, (and I full agree with you, Don:) How many times have you (or anyone else you've seen at the track) DQ'd someone for violating the "spirit and intent" rule?
I can very easily say "0," ZERO.

A good example of spirit and intent violation is when an engine (Predator, LO206, etc) have all engine parts right on the max/min measurement (min. valve length, min. piston weight, max. stroke, min. CCs, max. spring dimensions, etc.) for peak performance, all done through hand picking of parts...yet we all know that they never come that way collectively on a single engine from the factory. These engines still do not get DQ'd in tech due to the "spirit and intent" rule because the tech man cannot prove, beyond a doubt, that those parts "couldn't" have come that way by random chance. Which is why we need so many rules and measurement on parts to declare something legal or illegal. Personally, I'd rather go just by the measurements - that way I can confidently tell the competitor that his engine is legal or illegal and physically show them where. Telling them that they violated the "spirit & intent" rule wouldn't end well.

I realize why the spirit and intent rule exists and realize that we aren't always dealing with builders/racers who are above the board in the honesty and integrity department.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
33 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
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Back to the subject at hand.

At the age of 13 I read Mark Donahue's book The Unfair Advantage. I highly recommend it. Those were interesting times and perhaps the true golden age of auto racing.

Brian, you bring up an excellent point here. I have the talent and technology to for example; bore a valve seat ID to within 0.0005" of the maximum while matching the surface finish to the exact factory RMS. A no go tool will not enter even at 120F, too hot to handle. Visually and measurably identical yet a larger than typical OEM bore.

That being said, it took considerable time and effort, how do I know. Because I did it years ago as a what if on an animal engine. Never competed with it, as in I DNW but proved to myself it could be done and answered the question, why not? Part of my delusion I suppose, but I digress...

The answer; It just don't matter. The results were a lot of effort for no measurable gain. When I stopped focusing on optimizing the engine and turned attention to chassis, seating, tires and not driving like a knucklehead. I went considerably faster for cheaper with less effort and had much more fun.

Yes one can swap parts, mix and match to optimize an engine. Unfair? Perhaps to one who does not have the financial resources or too darn lazy. Both of which I aspire too.

It is just a go kart, never forget that! There are much better things to go to extremes on then that. I don't see how spirt and intent could be proven, and therefore enforced. If someone wishes to go to that level more power to them.

On the other hand, If one would open a valve seat ID with anything that does not exactly match the factory shape and finish then that will be apparent. That is then a quantifiable and enforceable violation of a clearly defined regulation. That is the purpose of having factory parts on hand to compare to as well as the measuring and comparative tools at our disposal.
 
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We never had a method to inspect the 60 cut other than compared to known stock part which made it a visual. So how could anyone tell even when comparing to known stock? If I cut my seat to 65 the tech couldn’t tell. As time went on the 65 grew to 70 and so on. When AKRA found out it was getting out of hand they decided to draw a line in the sand and come up with a no go. We tried to do a tool that would identify the 60 and the 70 plus but it was to difficult because of the different sizes of the inside seat dimensions. They are all over the place. The tool designed is good for getting everyone on the same page. It’s pretty simple it either passes or fails.
 
Again if this issue can't be enforced as spirt of intent, nothing else will every qualify breaking the rule either, so why even define spirit of intent or include it in the conversation in the first place.
 
Because the seats were defined as compared to known stock part. Once the seats were cut to the point that a visual comparison was without doubt wrong, it becomes a violation of spirit and intent. Maybe your definition of it and mine differ.
 
Was'nt it 30 45 60* all along .
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I and several others wanted to put the foot down and make everyone comply with the 30/45/60 rule. When this all started AKRA got tons of calls with concern about what the cost would be for those who were running the heads that had the 75 cut. Shipping to and from and the parts and the labor would have been very costly especially since we found out it has been taking place for several years. AKRA only got wind of it in the last few months. When I say many many heads I could even add a few more many many’s. So which eye does AKRA want blackened? The eye that makes all those people who had there engines done by builders and had no idea reach in there pocket and pay to get it right? OR the eye that says lets fix it best we can with as little cost to the karter as possible. One way or the other AKRA is gonna have a black eye over this. When AKRA found out that the heads being done by a certain individual were exceeding the 75 they decided to design a tool to stop the manipulation of the seats. There is a good chance the tool will dq some of the 75 cut heads especially if the cutter was used heavy. As for the flow from 60 to 75 I couldn’t see a difference on my sf60 flowing at 28 inches. Let me share what I found in that $185 head sold by a certain builder. First it didn’t flow as good as the two I sent to Illinois. 2 cfm less as a matter of fact. Second the springs were illegal on the .040 from side to side. Third, the valve at .045 didn’t seal in two different places on the seat. And fourth, the “D” shape of the port didn’t conform to the rule of compared to known stock part. That rule states” must have a distinct edge”. The edges were as smooth as a baby’s ass. So, now we have a tool to stop the spirit and intent violation of the seats. Don’t shoot me I am just your voice. I don’t always get my way As for KKania17,the carb, I informed you that if you wanted that carb approved you would need to be a dealer and supply AKRA with a sample for review. There would also have to be enough for the entire karting public to purchase one. Don’t shoot me guys I am just your representative. Like I said, I don’t always get what I want for the sport. Before hammering on me take a serious look at the cost to make everyone compliant. 6 of one/half a dozen of the other at this point. Between a rock and a hard place.
 
The problem here ( western PA ) is no one really techs preds. A lot of local tracks now require you to run their sealed engines. Leveled the field way out. Only time I ever had a real issue with tech went like this, younger kid running jr was always winning. Then out of nowhere another kart found some speed and was always giving him a run for it. The race was won by a tire, only tech the winner all they found was a drilled out plate. And I was upset because I help setup the kart and said you didn’t have to do that to win and the argument was if I was cheating and he was pushing me why aren’t you checking his engine? Never checked the other kart banned the kid with the drilled out plate and the other kart went on to win the championship never getting teched. That was my only issue. Cheating is cheating they got what they asked for but to be fair if you proved he was cheating and the other kid was on his bumper and everyone said you need to check him too and you don’t? Not fair.
 
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