How much oil for an animal motor

I believe he might be talking about the end gap on the rings. But I could be wrong. Too much crankcase pressure pushing too much oil to the valvetrain?
 
4 on the top. 12 on on the middle. Clip the expander just enough to make sure their is still some tension when it closes. Too little tension and you won't have to worry about skeeters...
 
It must be right, I read it on the internet / forum. Ha

"In my great opinion"
First of all what are you measuring the piston, bore diameter, taper and out of round with? Rhetorically.
Your top ring end gap may be correct depending on the answer to the question above.
Your second ring gap is too tight and won't breathe.
I can't tell you exactly how much to cut off the expander since i do it by eye and feel.
Lastly i also measure how easily or hard the engine turns over after assembly.
I have built many engines that I've had to take apart because of something i got wrong.
For the most part figured it out my self and didn't try to shame someone into giving me the right answer.
JJchat has given you some good info
 
Had machined at a friends machine shop, I was there personally and used ISO certified climate controlled dial bore gauge. Cylinder bore straight with in .0003. Spoke with two repeatable engine builders who gave me gaps to use. Upon assemble motor turned smooth and free. In my 55 years of life and building motors I have never had to take one apart because I made a mistake I take my time and make sure I do it right the first time. Doing your home work is important, especially when your doing a different type of motor for the first time. Though they are all motors each one has it's differences. So far the only mistake may have made was putting to much oil in it. But then again too much in this case is better than to little. There isn't ever shame in inquiring information.
 
In my 67 years I've made lots of mistakes and i'm sure i will make more.
I have built lots of motors, carb's, heads, cams etc to test theories only to find out what i hoped would make more power didn't and in fact made less or had some other issue. Had to take the motor apart again.
FWIW
I recently talked to another engine builder that set his second ring end gap at .045" and just won a WKA road race event.
He was using a head, carb and cam that i built for him. He did the bottom end himself.
 
So I guess the key to winning races is setting your 2nd ring gap to .045 dam I guess I'll pull mine a part today and change the gap, and I'll be the winner this coming weekend. Oh IMO it is more important to have your kart set-upright because for the most part all the horsepower you may have doesn't do you any good if you can not enter or exit corners first and foremost. I'll let you know if changing my end gap to .045 gets me to the finish line first. Have a great day.
 
I get frustrated when people give out advice and give out no reason for that advice, but the disparaging remarks directed at Jimbo are, IMHO, uncalled for. Jimbo spends a lot of time here trying to help newbies. Regardless of your opinion on his remarks, and their brevity, you should temper your response. A simple request for some expansion of his opinions would have been more appropriate. Your tone, in your response, was very abrasive. No need for that here.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
(Al Nunley)
 
Unfortunately for the detractors of this statement.......12 oz is most certainly enough oil to run in an Animal, under any circumstances.
I've been running these motors .... since 1999....started with the 206 and 190 cc motors, which the 206 later was called the animal. 190cc engine is identical, except with a shorter stroke.
Incidentally, I don't have a problem w/running 14 oz....just not needed in a good engine. Doesn't hurt either.
When you are sending oil into the catch can, you are running too much oil OR the engine needs serious attention. If it's blowing several oz's of oil in the catchcan.....do what you must to survive the session and then fix the engine. Loose guides, worn rings, cylinder out of round are typical problems when burning oil, or pushing into the catch can.
Incidentally.....the premise for ALL comments re: engines MUST be based on the assumption that the engine is whole.....not in poor condition.

When speaking with Kermit Buller a few years ago.........he told me that the only "trick" with oil (FHS62R) is to run as little of it as possible.
In the OHV's we never run less than 12 oz's. You want 12 still in it when you finish. If the engine is using oil....start w/a little more.....finish w/12oz.
 
what i have learned with my animal is when iwas running 16 oz it would smoke right after changing the oil and push some in the puke tank then stop smoking like 16 oz was tomuch now that i use 14 oz it does not smoke any more and the puke tank stayes empty so i think 14 oz is the magic ###
 
PD
With all due respect.
"Your original post says 12 oz no more no less"
Different engines and different race tracks will require different amounts of oil.
All engines may not built the same way.
An engine for a jr dragster will not need as much oil as an engine for an enduro race that is 1/2 hour long.
An engine for a 15 minute oval race like wise will be built different than one for 100 lap race.

Furthermore, what's the reason for only running 12 oz.
If you are going to say it makes more HP then what's the difference in HP that you have measured on your dyno from 12 oz to 14 or 16 oz?
 
Thanks for feed back this motor has been rebuilt by me I will lower amount to between 12 and 14oz and see what happens thank you again and I will get back to u next Monday we race again this coming sunday
 
You think I was rude really, and I quote " you have the ring package set up wrong " blunt and disrespectful I would say, especially when it comes with no Merritt and or facts, more of just ones opinion. Rude really and I quote " for the most part (key words there) I figured it out myself and did not try to shame some into giving me the right answer." So it sure sounds like he has asked for others info or opinions. I was rude really and I quote " I read it on the internet it must be right "! That's a real slap in the face to everyone on here! "You think" I don't recall questioning his ability until he questioned mine with respect to what and how to measure things. I did receive some private messages where info was exchanged and helpful which did include positive info on ring gap etc. Let me say this though, each engine builder has there own way of building there motors, each and everyone does something a little different than the next guy. No one knows it all, just because this or that works for one does not mean it works for someone else. So that is why gathering information is important in the learning process. Rember we can all always learn something new everyday. Gather, sort, use. All this when the original question was about how much oil to use. Everyone have a great day. Later
 
Rob25Racing said:
You think I was rude really, and I quote " you have the ring package set up wrong " blunt and disrespectful I would say
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like you have your ring package set up wrong. :) Better?
And I know exactly what Jimbo was referring to, if the motor doesn't "feel" right, you tear it back down to find out why. That comes from knowing what the good ones "feel" like. No one comes to mind who can coax more hp out of an animal than Jimbo.
Of course, it's a free country, Jimbo gave you a direction to look into, whether you do or not is up to you.
 
Boy are you way off base never said anywhere that something did not feel right. The word kiss comes to mind here Keep it simple ------. I'll just go with less oil seems to be the simplest and most logical thing to do first.
 
Jimbo said:
PD
With all due respect.
"Your original post says 12 oz no more no less"
Different engines and different race tracks will require different amounts of oil.
All engines may not built the same way.
An engine for a jr dragster will not need as much oil as an engine for an enduro race that is 1/2 hour long.
An engine for a 15 minute oval race like wise will be built different than one for 100 lap race.

Furthermore, what's the reason for only running 12 oz.
If you are going to say it makes more HP then what's the difference in HP that you have measured on your dyno from 12 oz to 14 or 16 oz?
Click to expand...
All my comments have some sort of context.....which I probably do not always spell out perfectly.
No doubt there are cases where all the ordinary protocol is changed. You win that argument.

In so far as dyno results.........by no means does a dyno tell us everything we need to know. Only when an experienced driver runs laps do we really know the results of our efforts.
 
Just my "personal opinion" so take it for what it's worth... I wouldn't run less than 14 in an Animal. And for flat or 5 degree mounts I have always recommended 16 ounces and I don't see any oil blowing out in the catch can.

Again, just my personal opinion... but 3/8" off the expander "might" be a little too much. If it smokes, has excessive blowby, has excessive oil consumption, or you are breaking oil rings.... you cut too much.
 
PD.
My father once told me "Anyone can make a mistake. It takes a good man to make it right"
I have made mistakes building and experimenting with engines but i always go back and "make it right"
It's my job as an engine builder to give people the best i can. The most useable horsepower.
If i build a great motor and they seize it up because i told them to put 12 ounces of oil in it i really screwed up.
You are correct. The dyno doesn't tell us everything we need to know.
However, I'll give them the horsepower it's their job to set up the kart and drive.
 
JBo,
Our customer base is different. I don't do stockers, clones, etc. Only do from Ltd.Mod. to Unlimiteds.
This is a fun job for me......(altho yesterday taking 8 hours to shape and seat 8 valves correctly wasn't really fun.)

So it's probably of no value whatever to exchange shots. Carry on....when you get as old and made as many trips around the blocks (from billet 500ci blown fueler blocks, to JR billets) as I, we learn one thing, for sure. That is, the more we learn, the more we find out that we don't know. The logic for that is simple: It's like discovering areas of concern that we did not previously know even existed. Thus, the more we learn, the more questions present themselves, requiring answers for the curious ones to seek.

Of course we all make mistakes. I start making mine about 6:30 each morning. Getting out of bed: Mistake #1!! It sometimes goes downhill from there. ;)
 
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