New rules TTT , Ducar only no HF predators
- Thread starter Slack2014
- Start date
flattop1
Dawg 89
There should be plenty .
I don't understand it either . tried to push the driver too run one , always against it .
then when we finally did all in . Three engines in no time , .
As entry level you can hardly beat the HF/predator deal .
Except the current rule / tinkering situation .
I don't understand it either . tried to push the driver too run one , always against it .
then when we finally did all in . Three engines in no time , .
As entry level you can hardly beat the HF/predator deal .
Except the current rule / tinkering situation .
"J'-remy
Member
https://cometkartsales.com/Yamaha-KT100SE-New-Style-Engine.html
this is not a bargain ^^^ no pipe, no chain guard, not blueprinted no dyno time those options make it $2000.00
AND it sounds like a chainsaw
this is not a bargain ^^^ no pipe, no chain guard, not blueprinted no dyno time those options make it $2000.00
AND it sounds like a chainsaw
"J'-remy
Member
in all honesty that ruleset is the nail being brought to the predator's coffin. its the Ducar engine because Harbor freight is phasing out the 212 in favor of the NEW 223. tillotson and Ducar will be the only 212 options and they don't offer the coupons like HF used to. If the builders get a "spec cam" made and the big pipe rule in there and the 212 starts hitting better lap times over the clone, the 212 will be the new built engine and the HF 223 will be the new $160 entry motor and we will all see history repeat. briggs should be jumping on this opportunity if they were smart, or the BSP sealed engine
flattop1
Dawg 89
Dosen't matter the MFG . cost of course at 99$ , it's yea lets do this . It will be fun .
Then you find out your getting beat by more experienced highly tuned engines .
Racing againt much more experienced pepole .
Bought the blue engine . Within a month we were racing the same folks we ran in the animal and flathead classes .
As stated, history repeats itself .
Maybe its just the evolution of things .
The fracture of the 2 major organizations along with the money involved had a big part in it .
Then you find out your getting beat by more experienced highly tuned engines .
Racing againt much more experienced pepole .
Bought the blue engine . Within a month we were racing the same folks we ran in the animal and flathead classes .
As stated, history repeats itself .
Maybe its just the evolution of things .
The fracture of the 2 major organizations along with the money involved had a big part in it .
DynoDon
Moderator
No doubt little jimmy and little Johnny’s dad had something to do with the cost of the clone. (For those of you who do not know the little jimmy Little Johnny story it’s a story I wrote about the progression of the clone racing parts). However if you take time to really think about it the flat head as a full racing engine was upwards of $1400-$1600. I do know some national engines that were in the $2000 range. By the time Little Jimmy and Little Johnny got all the parts together and the engine fully blue printed it Is not beyond belief that an engine of the clone type today is upwards of $1200. I will be the first to tell you that I can buy all the parts I need to to build it a good top-notch clone and I’m still going to have over $700 invested for my parts and efforts. Take a serious look at the big-name builders who are building these engines at the cost that is being complained about and understand all the overhead they have in order to produce a quality product. I am just a little one car garage guy who does it all by myself. I’ve paid for all the tooling that I have to do a top-notch job for my people. I don’t have the winter cost of heat and electricity, employees to pay for and Workmen’s Comp. You stop and take a serious thought about the whole situation and in order for a person who is making his life in this business that’s gonna have to be the cost in order to survive. So if any of you think that this 212 or even the 223 in the future is not going to reach those numbers you need to take a step back and take a look at the entire picture. It absolutely makes no sense to me whatsoever to create another clone by using the 212 as a platform to duplicate what we already have on the market. I have been involved in the evolution of the rulemaking for this clone engine because of builders taking advantage of gray areas in the rules. No doubt every time there is a new rule added to the program there Needs to be a tool to investigate the new rule is being followed. That adds money to the program. So take a step back and consider the things that I have mentioned in regards to what it cost to be competitive in a racing program. If you guys think that you can build a set of rules for this predator and not have it reach the cost of engines in the past you really are not experienced in the racing past. I have been around since the very very first change of the flat head. Oh, and incidentally that was an out-of-the-box engine also. It just wasn’t classified as such back then. It would be in everyone’s best interest to let this to 212 alone and find good tech people who understand the engine and inspect it at the end of the night based on the knowledge that they have from knowing what the parts look like from other out of the box engines. There are so many ways to control this entry level engine that it is laughable for anyone to change the rules. What started out as a great tool for promoting the sport is turning out to be a tool to hold the sport back even further.
A LOT
Thats why I threw in the extra word...used. I would consider $500 for mine...carb, motor mounts. Kinda changes the tune a little.https://cometkartsales.com/Yamaha-KT100SE-New-Style-Engine.html
this is not a bargain ^^^ no pipe, no chain guard, not blueprinted no dyno time those options make it $2000.00
AND it sounds like a chainsaw
Yes if you want the new out of the box, blueprinted, WKA legal, coated piston, coated ports, dyno. ...I had 1200 in mine...but I won races.
rebsfan4
Member
It has a suggested rpm rule. It's up to the tracks to enforce it. I've talked with Randy he has told me the same thing mentioned in the rules, the engine performs best BELOW 5000.
rebsfan4
Member
I really don't understand why people are making such a big deal about the engine. So what it has specs and/or measurements. They are stock specs that Dyno calibrated with Ducar to have the engine specifically built to. I'd rather have one engine, built to specs, that has replacement OEM part available, that only requires you to have ONE engine, at the ready to use for known parts comparison, than to have 500 hundred different parts that you have to sift through to see if you can find one that looks like it.
I teched a race this past Halloween in Louisiana. 1st place money race junior driver gets dq'd over the E-tube pass through tech. Everyone's been teching that the same as the clone at .066 no go. So 2nd place gets brought in.....bam same thing. Up until this point I had never seen any carb I personally had checked that the .066 would go through. So I tell the regular tech guy for that track, we need to take the carbs off of your hemi and non-hemi engines so I can do a comparison. First carb I checked, the . 066 would not start in the E-tube. 2nd carb I checked the .066 no-go fell right through it. I was actually relieved and frustrated at the same time. The dad's for the 1st and 2nd place drivers were there through the whole process. I was able to reverse the call and everybody was happy. Except for the fact that NOW the E-tube have yet another known part change to them. So yeah, I'd rather have ONE engine, all be it with specs.
And just so everyone knows, the springs pass the 15lb check at .850. How do I know? I called Larry Jones and had him make me a 4.2 lb add on weight to add to the 10.8 weight. If this class takes off, y'all can thank me for that part later.
I teched a race this past Halloween in Louisiana. 1st place money race junior driver gets dq'd over the E-tube pass through tech. Everyone's been teching that the same as the clone at .066 no go. So 2nd place gets brought in.....bam same thing. Up until this point I had never seen any carb I personally had checked that the .066 would go through. So I tell the regular tech guy for that track, we need to take the carbs off of your hemi and non-hemi engines so I can do a comparison. First carb I checked, the . 066 would not start in the E-tube. 2nd carb I checked the .066 no-go fell right through it. I was actually relieved and frustrated at the same time. The dad's for the 1st and 2nd place drivers were there through the whole process. I was able to reverse the call and everybody was happy. Except for the fact that NOW the E-tube have yet another known part change to them. So yeah, I'd rather have ONE engine, all be it with specs.
And just so everyone knows, the springs pass the 15lb check at .850. How do I know? I called Larry Jones and had him make me a 4.2 lb add on weight to add to the 10.8 weight. If this class takes off, y'all can thank me for that part later.
