Track Tac

No prep tires

Yes it would be hard to enforce an 100% no prep program with 20 plus classes. I know for a fact Mountain Creek has 2 or 3 no prep classes. The tires are bought from the track and cleaned and keep in a certain area. Then they stay there until the next race. It seems to have went well last year.

To tell the truth the ones doing the most complaining are the tire guru's, because if it was to take affect then prep wouldn't be needed, tires wouldn't need to be cut and so forth. In the end it's all about the money. Especially with Maxxis tires. Yes they be fast, they don't last very long. I myself would like to see more tracks in North and South Carolina go to them. To they are just a better tire. I seen where Chester Hester is promoting a new tire called Cobra. They say that there's no need to cut them. I seen somewhere that 200 laps was put on one set, with very little fall off. Try that with maxxis. Then on top of that they're 139$ a set.
The tire game is hard enough to keep up . So I guess as long as karters are willing to shell out the money it will never change.
Just my honest opinion, if I offended anyone, sorry.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
In the south it does, even with prep. Reason why lots of JR1 run the take offs of the uncut adult tires. Tire tread, along with shoulders, reduced, but with a tougher cured tire.
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Yea, but Earl, you're talking about a .050" Maxxis to begin with!
Now take a full tread depth Burris, Hoosier, even thick Yellow, and you aren't killing those in one run. You and I cut them down to thin rubber to get some speed out of them - that removes a LOT more rubber than the racer will ever do on the track. That was my point, anyhow.
 
IMO- Maxxis tires is one of the biggest downfalls of karting.... they are super expensive, require lots of prep, have no rubber on them but they are fast and you have to have them to be competitive.

Tracks need to fight back and spec a tire that isn't a Maxxis and then when sales drop things will change. Supply and demand are powerful factors!
 
Earl i totally get what you are saying and it makes complete sense. I think the track should leave them alone and everyone works on their own stagger numbers at the track. Yeah it took a couple weeks to get the correct numbers but once we did they stayed within an acceptable range all year, and were easier to work with. I highly doubt that a class like this would ever be that large unless there was a ridiculous amount of money up for grabs.
 
Forgive me, because I'm new to the karting world, but not new the racing world. Why wouldn't a minimum durometer number and a tire sampling test protocol not be able to fix this problem? Make the penalty severe enough that if you're caught with prepped tires, then you face XYZ penalty.

I've seen this formula be very successful in the full scale. Sampling is about $90 per sample, and set the minimum hot durometer number. Punch the tires on the track during the interviews, or the scales if they go there 1st. It will only take a few getting caught before everyone gets on board. Send out samples for the top 3, and if they come back wrong, then they pay the testing fee and face the penalties. For example, suspend the offending driver for 365 days, not just till the end of the year. Impose a monetary fine before they can return, make the balance of that fine payable to a children's charity. While this is more difficult at a local track, any series should be able to use this program.

The real stumbling block here is the amount classes that exist in karting period. Too many classes to send out 30 samples per event. (10 classes, 1 sample for the top 3 in each) I'm getting into karting with my son, and the amount of classes/motor configurations is ridiculous.
 
polesitter61 said:
Forgive me, because I'm new to the karting world, but not new the racing world. Why wouldn't a minimum durometer number and a tire sampling test protocol not be able to fix this problem? Make the penalty severe enough that if you're caught with prepped tires, then you face XYZ penalty.

I've seen this formula be very successful in the full scale. Sampling is about $90 per sample, and set the minimum hot durometer number. Punch the tires on the track during the interviews, or the scales if they go there 1st. It will only take a few getting caught before everyone gets on board. Send out samples for the top 3, and if they come back wrong, then they pay the testing fee and face the penalties. For example, suspend the offending driver for 365 days, not just till the end of the year. Impose a monetary fine before they can return, make the balance of that fine payable to a children's charity. While this is more difficult at a local track, any series should be able to use this program.

The real stumbling block here is the amount classes that exist in karting period. Too many classes to send out 30 samples per event. (10 classes, 1 sample for the top 3 in each) I'm getting into karting with my son, and the amount of classes/motor configurations is ridiculous.
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You said it yourself... 10 classes = 30 samples = $2,700.00 just to have the tires tested. Even a money series will get hurt by that and the payouts would be reduced to almost nothing as an effect. Duro tests aren't going to solve it either. I can build a ton of bite with some very good chemicals that will barely drop the duro of a tire, if at all. It would just make the prep bill go up $$$ because those chemicals aren't as cheap as Goat...

I agree, some events have too many classes but look at those classes and see what could be removed? Are there any that are really not warranted or justified?

Usual Saturday night race class lineup here in central Florida tracks:
Rookie
Jr1
Jr2
Jr3
Clone stock Med 350
Clone Stock heavy 375
Clone super heavy 400
Predator 350
Predator 375
Predator 400
Builders prepared or sportsmen
Open
RWYB

IMO thats not too bad, and it gives everyone a niche to race competitively at just about any weight and skill level. Of course, Open and RWYB wouldn't have any tire rules or testing.
 
You could eliminate 4 or 5 of those adult classes. You don't need builders prepared, open and RWYB. Pick 1, 2 if you have enough karts to support it. You don't need 3 clone and 3 predator. Max pick 3 from those 6. If you don't have an average of 8 in a class, you need to look to combine it.

Also, at least around here, all of those Jr classes are also offered in flat or champ/caged, so there are double of those. Wish they would just all go 1 or the other and be done with it. Even if it was if 2 tracks close by both run the same night, one gets flat and one gets champ and it's over. Switch off every 3rd fri/sat of the month if needed or something.

Way too many 2-3 kart classes so everyone can go home feeling like they had a chance to win. So stupid.
 
1fasttiller said:
IMO- Maxxis tires is one of the biggest downfalls of karting.... they are super expensive, require lots of prep, have no rubber on them but they are fast and you have to have them to be competitive.

Tracks need to fight back and spec a tire that isn't a Maxxis and then when sales drop things will change. Supply and demand are powerful factors!
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Maxxis costs less than the other top 3 brands, been the same pricing for at least 7-8 years. Doesnt take anymore prep or work than any other tire available. They came with about .120" rubber on them but the majority of karters wanted a thinner tire, Maxxis listened and came out with a tire with about half that. Once again that was because karters complained about too much rubber.
 
JKC in Jonesboro Ar has a open tire rule. As in treads or slicks. Treads ( no prep needed) rule that place with good kart count, 2 and 3 grove racing most nights.
 
You wouldn't have to test every class every week, pick one class a week, or maybe even 1 a month. It's only going to take 1 person getting caught/suspended/fined before others take notice. Randomly draw a class name out of the hat, and test that class for that week. The number of racers you would eventually gain, would offset the $300 expense in a years time.

As far as the number of classes, I see no reason to have 3 classes all the same with only weight being the difference. Age wise, I see no reason a 14 year old can't race a kart against a 40 year old. For the adult classes set them all at 400 and race them together. The only advantage to the lighter drivers is weight percentage/placement options at that point. I realized that finding places to mount lead can be challenging, but kart design would evolve. You could even create rule for maximum left side % ect (which there may already be)

The problem with so many classes is you dilute your sport. There are only a certain number of racers out there, and everyone is going to like something a little different. 2 stroke/4 stroke, spec/modified, ect. But if you have pool of 75 local racers, and 10 classes you can do the math. If you reduce that to 6 options. then you have 15 plus fields on average.

It isn't rocket science, but it looks like karting has evolved to this. I'll be honest, as I get my son into kart racing, I have no interested in dirt oval racing, which is hard, I'm an oval guy. I won't be backed into a corner where we have to spend the amount of time or money on tire prep to be competitive. The most successful asphalt oval full scale series in Florida right now is a crate engine, low cost spec shock, and tire testing regularly. The model works, it's proven. I have 3 dirt ovals within an hour drive from my town, and I'll drive past those to do road racing because of the tire deal. I'm not naïve to think that it won't have it's own set of challenges, but I think I'll stand a better chance on the tire deal.

Just an opinion from a guy who has never raced a kart, and been to half a dozen karting events in his entire life, so take it for what it's worth.
 
polesitter61 said:
I'm not naïve to think that it won't have it's own set of challenges, but I think I'll stand a better chance on the tire deal. Just an opinion from a guy who has never raced a kart, and been to half a dozen karting events in his entire life, so take it for what it's worth.
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Get a KA-100 for asphalt sprint, and don't look back...or a LO206 on sprint kart...
I hope to start a LO206 champ class here in NC, no prep. We'll see what happens. No washing either... it's not like we're picking up inches of mud on the tires. And once you do a pace lap they're back to dirty....so no washing (and this no chance for "that special wash.".)
 
I would think you could take one class and use it as a test sample of the idea. Take a class with a sealed LO206, make it no prep, and a 400lb weight. I think in a years time it would have the largest field of any class because you are controlling the cost. I would even mandate a spec tire so everyone was on the same compound, and make that a fairly hard compound tire that would put it back in the drivers hand. The key is to have a good tech program, if you have that, this would have no choice but to be successful.
 
And the Genie is spreading to other classes. Like micro600 and modifieds. Maybe it has always been there.
 
Good freind raced , HD drag bike . Always asked me about prep but never tried it .
Not sure the others were using it , but he was off just that little bit .
 
polesitter61 said:
You wouldn't have to test every class every week, pick one class a week, or maybe even 1 a month. It's only going to take 1 person getting caught/suspended/fined before others take notice. Randomly draw a class name out of the hat, and test that class for that week. The number of racers you would eventually gain, would offset the $300 expense in a years time.

As far as the number of classes, I see no reason to have 3 classes all the same with only weight being the difference. Age wise, I see no reason a 14 year old can't race a kart against a 40 year old. For the adult classes set them all at 400 and race them together. The only advantage to the lighter drivers is weight percentage/placement options at that point. I realized that finding places to mount lead can be challenging, but kart design would evolve. You could even create rule for maximum left side % ect (which there may already be)

The problem with so many classes is you dilute your sport. There are only a certain number of racers out there, and everyone is going to like something a little different. 2 stroke/4 stroke, spec/modified, ect. But if you have pool of 75 local racers, and 10 classes you can do the math. If you reduce that to 6 options. then you have 15 plus fields on average.

It isn't rocket science, but it looks like karting has evolved to this. I'll be honest, as I get my son into kart racing, I have no interested in dirt oval racing, which is hard, I'm an oval guy. I won't be backed into a corner where we have to spend the amount of time or money on tire prep to be competitive. The most successful asphalt oval full scale series in Florida right now is a crate engine, low cost spec shock, and tire testing regularly. The model works, it's proven. I have 3 dirt ovals within an hour drive from my town, and I'll drive past those to do road racing because of the tire deal. I'm not naïve to think that it won't have it's own set of challenges, but I think I'll stand a better chance on the tire deal.

Just an opinion from a guy who has never raced a kart, and been to half a dozen karting events in his entire life, so take it for what it's worth.
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Who is going to reimburse the karter for the tire destroyed?
 
polesitter61 said:
I would think you could take one class and use it as a test sample of the idea. Take a class with a sealed LO206, make it no prep, and a 400lb weight. I think in a years time it would have the largest field of any class because you are controlling the cost. I would even mandate a spec tire so everyone was on the same compound, and make that a fairly hard compound tire that would put it back in the drivers hand. The key is to have a good tech program, if you have that, this would have no choice but to be successful.
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No it wouldnt, champ karts are a minority already, you then tell a racer he cant prep, cant touch his engine, cant wash his tires... my guess the class will be a memory in a year.......some of you just need to make a weekly trip to the concession karts, that sounds like what you want anyway, or participation trophies for everyone, sorry karting of any kind takes hard work, and there will be winners and losers.
It's funny guys today dont want to take the time to learn something, they want to dumb it down to their level .
 
This is getting out of hand. I see how everyones argument here has meaning but this is exactly the reason it will never work. You would think we all enjoy karting and it would be easier to find a group of like minded individuals. Nope.

This is something I am asking people who have been in karting for over ten years. Ive seen it in my region, karting has become a niche sport. And the more we argue over controversial issues like this the smaller our community will become. At a national level event yes it is necassary because your around the best of the best. At a weekend race for zero money, only points i see no need to prep. It has its time and place and the fact that you need more tires now than ever to just be competetive is killing our sport.

Unless your into darwinism and only the strongest karters will survive lol🤣
 
Its the Little Johnny syndrome .
Him or Her are going to be the next Jeff Gordon or Danica Patrick .
It is a niche sport . It takes a lot of work , money and time to be the best .
Inital cost is high with zero return , that is the real problem .
All these ideas are pushed on the promoter , too manage and implement .
I have not seen one no prep plan with provisons to compensate the person or persons that manage the no prep program .
Time constraints are not considered either .
 
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