No Vintage Enduro's at Mid Ohio or Gratten... Thanks Dart Kart Club
- Thread starter Rixkart
- Start date
B-Man..... LOL..... Foil hat..... Good one....
Without opening up another Pandora's Box...
I have run with Animals and never had, but 1 time, any problems..
Speeds were pretty close and the guys were always good to us.
We talked about the races, not who chopped who or bumped who or crap like that...
Is there a few complainers?? Yes there always is.... Usually guys who are looking for someone to blame for their mistakes...
But as a whole, no matter the class, everyone is just racers..
Heck, I have given parts to some Briggs guys, had them stop by for lunch, and helped them at Mid Ohio...
I loaned a set of wheels and tires to one fellow...
I am a racers, as are most guys...
My father ran Midgets in the 40's, I have been in Karting and Drag racing up to date.
And my son is Team Manager for Team Sahlen, a Grand Am Team who ran Daytona Prototypes last year and have returned to the ST Class this year..r
I have helped as a spotter and have heard about everything over the radio's.
But, the basic skills are NOT relied on through the radio.
Driving and knowing how to drive is their responsibility..
Enduro racers have forgotten how to drive and run with different speed karts.
Remember back in the 80's...
That was some great racing..
Without opening up another Pandora's Box...
I have run with Animals and never had, but 1 time, any problems..
Speeds were pretty close and the guys were always good to us.
We talked about the races, not who chopped who or bumped who or crap like that...
Is there a few complainers?? Yes there always is.... Usually guys who are looking for someone to blame for their mistakes...
But as a whole, no matter the class, everyone is just racers..
Heck, I have given parts to some Briggs guys, had them stop by for lunch, and helped them at Mid Ohio...
I loaned a set of wheels and tires to one fellow...
I am a racers, as are most guys...
My father ran Midgets in the 40's, I have been in Karting and Drag racing up to date.
And my son is Team Manager for Team Sahlen, a Grand Am Team who ran Daytona Prototypes last year and have returned to the ST Class this year..r
I have helped as a spotter and have heard about everything over the radio's.
But, the basic skills are NOT relied on through the radio.
Driving and knowing how to drive is their responsibility..
Enduro racers have forgotten how to drive and run with different speed karts.
Remember back in the 80's...
That was some great racing..
Ted,
In road racing the track is way different from a twisty sprint track. The turns aren't as tight, and the line of sight is often obscured. Also on a Road course we are taking the slowest turn at the same speed you might be taking your fastest turn. The seat position of a "sprint" enduro is not nearly as upright as a sprint kart, it is much harder to put your head on a swivel. TaG's and others that run CIK style karts are much more upright than we are and are better able to look around. Basically if you can see the other guy behind you, then you're too far away from him to cause him any difficulty, or him to you. This is just one of the many facets of differences that make them incompatible. hope that helps.
B-man
Member
Yes that's the thing - most everyone has a great attitude and the whole thing is a blast we all seem to make an effort to be civil on and mostly off the track, but there is are and will be times when its one or both who make a bad choice in the nano second of time, do we really need that level of risk? Is there no better answer.
Basic skills are required indeed but you have to admit when going into a tight right hand from a fast straight - a voice in your ear telling you someones about to overtake you on the right in a faster car, to your left off line a slow one that has been unpredictable as a squirrel on crack, is he going to "go for it?" Your trying to hit that keyhole in the apex just right so you have a chance to catch the draft back on the leaders so you don't get to just parade around for the rest of the race. Just sucks the fun right out of it.
Trust me I have taken advantage of the big hole in the air a TAG makes and the straightaway speed a laydown makes but most times I'm yielding to 55" of parked in front of me
right when I'm trying to get into or through a turn with minimal loss of speed - voice in my helmet screaming "you got twice the tire ?". That my friend, that is the complaint!
That voice - that level of awareness is priceless - perhaps that is what we need, radios and spotters.. or
cheaper yet; blue flag w/red X from the corner flagger. ??
Basic skills are required indeed but you have to admit when going into a tight right hand from a fast straight - a voice in your ear telling you someones about to overtake you on the right in a faster car, to your left off line a slow one that has been unpredictable as a squirrel on crack, is he going to "go for it?" Your trying to hit that keyhole in the apex just right so you have a chance to catch the draft back on the leaders so you don't get to just parade around for the rest of the race. Just sucks the fun right out of it.
Trust me I have taken advantage of the big hole in the air a TAG makes and the straightaway speed a laydown makes but most times I'm yielding to 55" of parked in front of me
right when I'm trying to get into or through a turn with minimal loss of speed - voice in my helmet screaming "you got twice the tire ?". That my friend, that is the complaint!That voice - that level of awareness is priceless - perhaps that is what we need, radios and spotters.. or
cheaper yet; blue flag w/red X from the corner flagger. ??
I read all this and my interpretation is, karts alike should race together..
I have no problem with that..
And, what is so tough about that???
I am comparing lap times with all the karts at Mid Ohio..
Thank goodness for MyLaps..
I'll have more on this soon....
Interesting view B-Man... Every class has it's fast and slower karts..
This is where there is problems too..
So, how do you tell a fellow class racer, your to slow or a Rookie your to slow..
Flags are a good idea, if the racers respect them...
The guy with a 55" park, might argue that, that's his driving style..
And he has the right to drive the way he wants. After all... You are...
Your complaint?? I understand that....
But you may have to back off and pass him else where on the track..
After all, these enduro tracks are about 2 miles long... There are other places to make that move..
That's common sense too....
No one owns the track, we share it with all the other racers.
Everyone needs to respect each other and if there is a problem.
Talk to your club and explain where there is a problem.
Maybe move the classes around on the start..
But no matter what, we ALL need to work together.
Or you may end up in the same boat as we are...
I have no problem with that..
And, what is so tough about that???
I am comparing lap times with all the karts at Mid Ohio..
Thank goodness for MyLaps..
I'll have more on this soon....
Interesting view B-Man... Every class has it's fast and slower karts..
This is where there is problems too..
So, how do you tell a fellow class racer, your to slow or a Rookie your to slow..
Flags are a good idea, if the racers respect them...
The guy with a 55" park, might argue that, that's his driving style..
And he has the right to drive the way he wants. After all... You are...
Your complaint?? I understand that....
But you may have to back off and pass him else where on the track..
After all, these enduro tracks are about 2 miles long... There are other places to make that move..
That's common sense too....
No one owns the track, we share it with all the other racers.
Everyone needs to respect each other and if there is a problem.
Talk to your club and explain where there is a problem.
Maybe move the classes around on the start..
But no matter what, we ALL need to work together.
Or you may end up in the same boat as we are...
B-man
Member
Your closer to enlightenment and all you have said is true with the exception of "..other places to make that move". It works for TAG and vintage but not for us.
Lets travel a little further..
What I have been trying to convey is the Animal class is uniquely different, we don't have the F1 Traction and brakes the TAG has or the acceleration TAG and vintage has. Think of it as NASCAR restrictor racing or SCCA Formula Ford or V, momentum and drafting is everything to us.
Loose the draft and your only chance is to play leap frog with the TAG and vintage or hook up with another animal coming up to you, usually run out of time.
This may be redundant to you now but that’s the simple concept I’m trying to convey to everyone.
Yes there are back markers in every class, an acceptable part of the deal. I have been coached and coached others on this matter – it’s simple, try to be smooth, leave room in case there is someone about to pass you.
"No one owns the track" Absolutely! And that is why I am taking the time to try to come to some solution that satisfies all - each of us will loose a bit, none of us needs to lose it all.
And to that end for you vintage racers, Woodbridge Kart Club has vintage, we work well together for the most part, come on over - WE HAVE COOKIES!
and chips, burgers, beer..
Lets travel a little further..
What I have been trying to convey is the Animal class is uniquely different, we don't have the F1 Traction and brakes the TAG has or the acceleration TAG and vintage has. Think of it as NASCAR restrictor racing or SCCA Formula Ford or V, momentum and drafting is everything to us.
Loose the draft and your only chance is to play leap frog with the TAG and vintage or hook up with another animal coming up to you, usually run out of time.
This may be redundant to you now but that’s the simple concept I’m trying to convey to everyone.
Yes there are back markers in every class, an acceptable part of the deal. I have been coached and coached others on this matter – it’s simple, try to be smooth, leave room in case there is someone about to pass you.
"No one owns the track" Absolutely! And that is why I am taking the time to try to come to some solution that satisfies all - each of us will loose a bit, none of us needs to lose it all.
And to that end for you vintage racers, Woodbridge Kart Club has vintage, we work well together for the most part, come on over - WE HAVE COOKIES!
and chips, burgers, beer..
Well, cookies, chips, burgers and beer, sounds like my kind of event..
Seriously ..... We are looking forward to running at Summit Point on the big track..
I am hoping to bring as many local folks as possible... Vintage or Modern.... and meet up with the Griffiths there too....
Like I stated in the beginning.
When one door shuts, another door opens...
I am hoping that this is an opening that will be constructive for everybody.... c
We are NOT coming to run for points, so the class we enter in moot...
I have some self-educating to do on your class structure...
And, BTW.....
We always bring a cooler full of dogs and burgers and a grill...
That is what my wife does...
Cooks a LOT of lunch...
Everyone is invited to join us....
Now to pick a date to come over..
I'll let you know..
Rick
Seriously ..... We are looking forward to running at Summit Point on the big track..
I am hoping to bring as many local folks as possible... Vintage or Modern.... and meet up with the Griffiths there too....
Like I stated in the beginning.
When one door shuts, another door opens...
I am hoping that this is an opening that will be constructive for everybody.... c
We are NOT coming to run for points, so the class we enter in moot...
I have some self-educating to do on your class structure...
And, BTW.....
We always bring a cooler full of dogs and burgers and a grill...
That is what my wife does...
Cooks a LOT of lunch...
Everyone is invited to join us....
Now to pick a date to come over..
I'll let you know..
Rick
rainman
Member
Well, I have over 3, 500 views on my clone sell out thread abd still have some parts left, lol.
Rainman...
Sorry to hear you can't sell everything..
But, That's the difference..
You are selling, we are informing.
It's a tough sell to clear out a lot of parts...
FOR VINTAGE ENDURO RACERS....
There are some things happening that I hope to bring to light in a month or so...
Stay Tuned....
Sorry to hear you can't sell everything..
But, That's the difference..
You are selling, we are informing.
It's a tough sell to clear out a lot of parts...
FOR VINTAGE ENDURO RACERS....
There are some things happening that I hope to bring to light in a month or so...
Stay Tuned....
rainman
Member
I actually sold most stuff and will get a 206 for RR. I am also concerned about entries on RR and increasing prices for renting tracks. Though I have only joined RR a couple of years ago I love it and actually I think the day I quit racing other types of karting I will still race RR.
B-man
Member
For Woodbridge Kart Club this is the typical race day format that includes Animal, TaG and Vintage.
Saturday
WKA Sprint Final 1
Yamaha sportsman final 1
Yamaha sprint heavy
Clone 385 local opt
Animal 335
Animal 385
WKC jr TaG 1
WKC jr CIK lite
Jr sprint lite
WKC vintage usa
WKC R TaG #1
Sunday
WKA Sprint Final 2
Yamaha sportsman final 2
Yamaha sprint lite
Clone 360 local opt
Animal 360
Animal 410
WKC jr TaG 2
WKC jr CIK heavy
Jr sprint heavy
WKC vintage euro
WKC R TaG #2
You can go to the WKC website for specific rules for the vintage classes.
http://www.woodbridgekartclub.com
My comment of having a shorter separation between flags had no response, should I take that as acceptance or disbelief that I could be so blasphemous - such radical thinking is unspeakable?
To me if you place the potentially faster class first and so on, give them a short split, it will take a bit longer for lapping to happen. The only exception being Shenandoah, with the big hill first thing, we Animals were on top of the TaG and 2 cycle sprints, we increased the time so they could get over the hill first.
Has anyone had the time and expertise to set up a spreadsheet with the MyLaps data?
Lastly, if anyone knows Vintagequest, see if hes willing to come back to the conservation. He has to explain so I do understand, the foil hat works both ways, Jamie Webb can't read my thoughts and I can't read others - even without the hat!
Regards,
B
Saturday
WKA Sprint Final 1
Yamaha sportsman final 1
Yamaha sprint heavy
Clone 385 local opt
Animal 335
Animal 385
WKC jr TaG 1
WKC jr CIK lite
Jr sprint lite
WKC vintage usa
WKC R TaG #1
Sunday
WKA Sprint Final 2
Yamaha sportsman final 2
Yamaha sprint lite
Clone 360 local opt
Animal 360
Animal 410
WKC jr TaG 2
WKC jr CIK heavy
Jr sprint heavy
WKC vintage euro
WKC R TaG #2
You can go to the WKC website for specific rules for the vintage classes.
http://www.woodbridgekartclub.com
My comment of having a shorter separation between flags had no response, should I take that as acceptance or disbelief that I could be so blasphemous - such radical thinking is unspeakable?
To me if you place the potentially faster class first and so on, give them a short split, it will take a bit longer for lapping to happen. The only exception being Shenandoah, with the big hill first thing, we Animals were on top of the TaG and 2 cycle sprints, we increased the time so they could get over the hill first.
Has anyone had the time and expertise to set up a spreadsheet with the MyLaps data?
Lastly, if anyone knows Vintagequest, see if hes willing to come back to the conservation. He has to explain so I do understand, the foil hat works both ways, Jamie Webb can't read my thoughts and I can't read others - even without the hat!
Regards,
B
B-man
Member
I don't know, don't see where it specifies "no rear engine". I've pas.. <cough> seen them on the track. Best if you contact the board and someone can answer.
bmss96 - I used to have a pair of them.. I only posted the races that includes the Animal, best if you also contact the board.
bmss96 - I used to have a pair of them.. I only posted the races that includes the Animal, best if you also contact the board.
hellcat343
New member
first I would like to ask if my 91 bandit k-bar is considered vintage? second I ran sit up 4cycle sprint (superstock flat head) in mixed races of 60-75 karts on track at the same time the only guys that got their own race were 250cc unlimited. I am wondering if this is a problem based in some drivers lack of skill and not the speed or braking differences. I ran with laydowns ,shifters,2 cycle can and expansion and just about every other class that was held at the time and we had none of the whining and crying I see represented here. we ran 2min. flat by ourselves and 1:56s in a draft. some of the most fun I ever had on a race track was with a man 70 years my senior, Harold was 84 in 1994 I was 14. one of the basic rules of racing is to look up the track were you are going not were your at if you cant spot a slower kart and find a line to go around them fast and safe maybe you all should go back to short track racing.
B-man
Member
Your k-bar is not vintage if you run an animal stock or limited mod. If you run more than 36" wide, no full floor pan and layback seat with the flattie you'll be just be lapped. Even with body, seat and pan the flat head is toast.
What you interpreted as puling is a serious concern for life and limb. Most of us comprehend the seriousness of our sport it is the few with no short track experience, a complete lack of situational awareness and little regard for others that cause concern.
It does not matter what "back in my day" happened, been there; done that, have dozens of T shirts - this is today and there is a pronounced difference with this one class spelled out as clearly as possible in the text above here.
I will be more than happy to set you up for a race so you can see what it's like to experience today's situation so you can be "up to speed".
Regards,
B
What you interpreted as puling is a serious concern for life and limb. Most of us comprehend the seriousness of our sport it is the few with no short track experience, a complete lack of situational awareness and little regard for others that cause concern.
It does not matter what "back in my day" happened, been there; done that, have dozens of T shirts - this is today and there is a pronounced difference with this one class spelled out as clearly as possible in the text above here.
I will be more than happy to set you up for a race so you can see what it's like to experience today's situation so you can be "up to speed".
Regards,
B