Out of karting for a while and confused on choosing an engine to go with.

kartracer_3

kartracer_3

Member
So we have the Animal which was suppose to replace the flathead. I am familiar with those , sort of, I ran one about 15 years ago for a short time for a local kart shop just mainly doing a little R/D. We were still running flatheads at the time and did not stick with the Animal because no one wanted to switch over and our only alternative was to run in the open class RWYB and that was no fun, lol.
I get the Flatheads of course, ran those for years and years but they are getting fewer in numbers now days.
I also ran a World Formula for a very short time about 12-14 years ago . Loved the motor and the electric start , the fact that it ran on gas and I did not have to change the oil all the time and if I took care of it it would last a whole season before it needed a rebuild , maybe longer. Plus it seemed to have more power than the animal and defiantly lots more than the flathead however folks were still running flat heads and did not want to make a class at my local track, only took 3 to make a class.
Which leads me to my questions. Is a Clone a Chinese knock off of an Animal ?
Is a Briggs 206 just a hot rod version of an Animal from the factory, if so whats the difference ?
Does a World Formula have more power than all the above ? I know it has a rev limiter at 7,000 rpm's if I remember correctly.
and lastly why on earth did the karting industry go to the Clone , I know its not like that every where but here in Indiana that seems to be the dominate engine.
thanks in advance
KR3
 
the only real answer is find out what the rules are and what they are running where you want to run... around here about the only engine is the predator or 212cc clone... several classes to run based on the amount of modification done... simple and as inexpensive as you can get....
 
Clone is a copy of Honda.
206 has less power than a built animal.
206 has a sealed block.
We went to the cloNE because people were sick of 1500.00+flatheads
 
Feel free to call me if you want information the LO 206, Animal, World Formula or the 206 Superstock.
920-207-9180
 
fatboy1dh, I am thinking of starting a super heavy World Formula box stock class on dirt at Columbus , Indiana. Push button on board electric start, spin out kill the motor no problem, don't have a friend to start you on the grid , no problem. Runs on pump gas so you don't have to worry about someone showing up to the track to sell alcohol and don't have to change oil every couple of races like you do with the alky engines. You can purchase them from 800- $ 1,000 and they come with a exhaust pipe and clutch. Plus they have more power than a flathead, stock Animal, 206 or a blueprinted clone. Which means a very heavy guy like me will be able to run with any "stock " class. It should make for some great racing if I can find some like minded folks.
 
xxx#40, thanks , I remembered the clone being a knock off of a Honda right after I posted the question. Its all coming back to me now.
Funny how the more things change the more they stay the same. I was paying $1100 for very good WKA flatheads back in the day now after doing some research I find engine builders charging the same or more for built clones. I so wish the industry had not went the way of the clone. Miss the glory days of the flathead.
 
Jimbo, thanks again. If I can get the WF class rolling this time I will definitely be in touch. I might anyways if I decide to run a road course at New Castle.
 
kartracer_3 said:
xxx#40, thanks , I remembered the clone being a knock off of a Honda right after I posted the question. Its all coming back to me now.
Funny how the more things change the more they stay the same. I was paying $1100 for very good WKA flatheads back in the day now after doing some research I find engine builders charging the same or more for built clones. I so wish the industry had not went the way of the clone. Miss the glory days of the flathead.
Click to expand...

Briggs put an end to the flathead, tried to force the animal, it took off in some areas, some not.
 
Makes me wonder why someone did not figure out a way around the EPA crap and start making an after market, purpose built, for racing only, flat head block. Then it would have truly been flat heads forever. If I remember correctly at the time that is the only part you could not buy separate.
 
There's still plenty of flatheads around Indiana (maybe not so much southern IN) but convincing their owners to run them when the money classes are almost always clone classes is another problem.

The WF engine is a decent package, but the rules were loose enough that it allowed BP-ing of them and a few builders were demanding big bucks for a small advantage that some deemed worthwhile. Thus the cost skyrocketed and the class never caught on (certainly not on ovals.) There is currently not a single track in the midwest that you can run a World Formula class (other than opens.) Convincing others to purchase an engine to only run at Columbus will certainly be an uphill battle, especially considering that the track has just reopened after several long silent years. Running on the big quarter mile may be discouraging to rev limiter racing as well.

The 206 is a great package, and provides good HP (especially at the price-point.)
It is slowly catching on at dirt ovals in the midwest, but again, seems squeezed out by clone class racers chasing the money.

Clones are now at the same price-point as flatheads back in the day -- and that's a big reason that you see so many jumping off of them like fleas from a dead dog. Some are going to the 206, some to the predator, some even back to their old flatheads. Yet others are simply selling out of frustration.
Our industry has been lacking leadership for some time now and repeating history has had some pretty bad results as of late.


-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on FaceBook
29 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Brian. No offense but We have a small class of Wf's at Road America. They are also the engine required for the Kid sprint karts and i believe they still use them in the 1/4 midgets also. There is also an off road truck series that uses the WF.
The WF class at RA has been running the out of the box WF's with the unlimited RPM coil for 3 seasons and we have not had one engine failure!!!
 
kartracer_3 said:
fatboy1dh, I am thinking of starting a super heavy World Formula box stock class on dirt at Columbus , Indiana. Push button on board electric start, spin out kill the motor no problem, don't have a friend to start you on the grid , no problem. Runs on pump gas so you don't have to worry about someone showing up to the track to sell alcohol and don't have to change oil every couple of races like you do with the alky engines. You can purchase them from 800- $ 1,000 and they come with a exhaust pipe and clutch. Plus they have more power than a flathead, stock Animal, 206 or a blueprinted clone. Which means a very heavy guy like me will be able to run with any "stock " class. It should make for some great racing if I can find some like minded folks.
Click to expand...
Just start a 4 cycle “stock appearing” class and 10-20 karts will show up. Keep getting more and more showing up at lawrenceburg because of the open tire rule in that class because no one wants to buy Hoosiers just to run there.
 
Jimbo said:
Brian. No offense but We have a small class of Wf's at Road America. They are also the engine required for the Kid sprint karts and i believe they still use them in the 1/4 midgets also. There is also an off road truck series that uses the WF.
The WF class at RA has been running the out of the box WF's with the unlimited RPM coil for 3 seasons and we have not had one engine failure!!!
Click to expand...


No offense taken, or offered. Read my post again, please. You forgot there's about a dozen sealed WFs being run in microstocks on the east coast too. Bottom line is that the WF engine, despite being a good package is not popular on ovals. In fact, I don't know of one class for them anywhere in the world on dirt oval karts.

The L206 is just finally gaining some ground on dirt ovals in the midwest (while totally no-existent in other parts of the country.)
There are a couple of tracks in Ohio that are starting to put up some money for the L206 to try to garner some more entries. I don't know if that's the best approach or not for this class, but something has to be tried.

Bottom line...not many tracks are in the position to turn away karters. (Especially one that's re-opening for the first time in many many years.) They will accommodate the racers in one class or another. Put together a few guys with the same engine package and common rule-set and see if it takes off. More power to ya! ;)
 
Jml86 said:
Just start a 4 cycle “stock appearing” class and 10-20 karts will show up. Keep getting more and more showing up at lawrenceburg because of the open tire rule in that class because no one wants to buy Hoosiers just to run there.
Click to expand...

not to jump far off topic, but this is starting to become more popular... guys that just want to race and don't want to spend time and energy worrying about tech. as long as it looks stock, bring it and race.. we had 20 guys at our last race on everything flat heads, stars, clone, and real honda's, pred and animals
 
Yes Brian you are correct.
The 206 is by far the most popular 4 cycle SPRINT racing engine package. For the first time since the 90's locally we have a "B" main for our green slide (8 to 12 year old class) the gold slide class is getting very close to needing one also.
We had 22 eight to twelve year old entries last week. If they would all show up on the same night we would probably have 30 or more.
At 2 of the local dirt ovals the 206 is by far the most popular also.
I think it would be good for the dirt oval world if the 206 continues to become more popular.
We both know the obstacles there.:)
 
" WF's with the unlimited RPM coil " Jimbo tell me more.This is the first I have heard of this coil. I don't think I would want to go much over 8,000 with one but what could a guy turn one to. Where is the engines true limit ?
I figure a group of like minded folks could start the class at box stock, then go to box stock with some small blueprinting involved and then maybe step up to unlimited rpm coils.
I have one other person willing to commit already, just need one more to make the class.
Mr. Carlson , why do you think there would be an issue on the 1/4 mile track ? I would just have to gear it to hit the rev limiter right before corner entry just like the small 1/5 th mile track.
 
Jimbo , what I meant to ask besides the rpm limit of the WF is where does the HP fall off ? At what rpm does the HP peak ? thanks
 
kartracer_3 said:
" WF's with the unlimited RPM coil " Jimbo tell me more.This is the first I have heard of this coil. I don't think I would want to go much over 8,000 with one but what could a guy turn one to. Where is the engines true limit ?
I figure a group of like minded folks could start the class at box stock, then go to box stock with some small blueprinting involved and then maybe step up to unlimited rpm coils.
I have one other person willing to commit already, just need one more to make the class.
Mr. Carlson , why do you think there would be an issue on the 1/4 mile track ? I would just have to gear it to hit the rev limiter right before corner entry just like the small 1/5 th mile track.
Click to expand...

Because on a big momentum oval where you are wide open all the time, once the rev limiter and gearing are pretty much nailed down, it becomes more or less a dyno run (a HP comparison)...that's when guys start disregarding the "box stock" rules and start hopping the engines up (ie blueprinting.)
What Jimbo meant by "unlimited" coil, is the 12,000 rpm animal coil. Trust me, there IS a limit, and it is well before 12,000! ;)
I think the 12K coil would be the way to go, however, you would want to "build" the rest of engine to endure the increased rpm. Lots of guys (builders and racers) have used the WF rod in their animals over the years and they have proven to hold up just fine at increased rpm. Keep in mind though that the WKA animal and WF are blueprinted engines and have been clearanced, beefed up, massaged, etc. to withstand the increase in rpm.
As you get further and further into the mods, your on board starter now becomes suspect and you end up with am aftermarket flywheel with starter ring, bigger battery, etc -- this may or may not be the direction you wish to go in the future.
Personally, I wouldn't be real excited about running a big oval track with a class of 3 cars...but you've got to start somewhere. If the concept appeals to the masses, it will catch on. You might take a look at what some of the guys are trying with mini-wedge cars, microstocks, winged champ or rocker cage karts, etc. The additional bodywork makes it look more like a racecar and may attract some new people. That's what our sport so desperately needs.
 
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