racing lo206 and akra pro clone together

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xtreameracer

New member
I am on the committee at a local track, i am going to try to get the lo206 engines going for the 2015 season. So not to have only a few show up and not have a class for them i thought about letting them race with the clones. The question i have is how close are the engines to run in the same class and same weight. This will be a 1/8 dirt oval also disk clutch open pipe clone they will be running with.
 
You really won't know until you get them on the track. Each track configuration is a bit different. On a momentum oval, the LO206 should walk the dog on the clones, HOWEVER, because of the rev limiter on the 206, if your track causes a lot of corner rpm drop, the clone will be slightly better because of it's extra revs.
I'd suggest starting them out on even up weight and then make adjustments that keep the karts together on the track the best.

I'm not a big fan of combining engine types, BUT, I commend you for wanting to give more racers a chance to race with the engine of their choice. More importantly, it's not yet another class of 2 or 3 karts added to the typically too many classes for the night problem we have in karting today!


-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com

Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Brian is exactly right on this, we have found they can run together at the same weight on all different tracks you have to have a good group of racers that are always searching in setup to make this work if they set it up once and race all year you will probably find a certain motor package is more dominate just because people get lazy or just simply don't know how to change driving techniques for that engine. The best tracks we have found are 1/7 to 1/6 mile tracks with a burp and go type corner. Good luck and hope this helps, but with a open pipe and clutch I'd be on a 206 yee haw
 
Our track is small they call it a tenth to an eight. We run a 1270 gear on maxxis slicks for a clone. To give u an idea of size. And the adults rum the 206 and clones together. And idk if it has to do with setup. Or driver but the front 3 karts are always 206. The clones are pretty lucky to break the top 4. Because of this most bought a 206. By the end of the year. Hope this helps
 
I've posted in another thread, that on our 19 turn sprint track the Lo206 owns an AKRA clone(we run open pipe on clones), even at 20#'s heavier weight. The difference is to the tune of about 3 seconds a lap on a 1 minute lap time track. Why? I have no idea.
A couple of the guys are promising to post torque and HP curves that maybe will provide the answer.
 
The 206 has a nice flat torque curve it is tuned ideally for the sprint track, it pulls hard at low RPM(exiting corner) it continues to pull until it reaches the limiter. The Honda/clone can have the same or similar tune but most shoot for RPM, all they brag about is how many RPM they are getting. If the GX engine is tuned/built to maximize torque from 3K to 6.5K rather than shooting for 6-7K they can be much closer and without the limited coil the GX should shine.

The 206 has a far superior carburetor.
 
rkcarguy said:
A couple of the guys are promising to post torque and HP curves that maybe will provide the answer.
Click to expand...

Just some quick torque data for now based on LO206 vs Clone.

Note - The actual torque numbers are lowered for presentation, but the % differences are correct. So yea the LO206 has a little more torque on the bottom end.

LO206
RPM -- Tq ( Ft-Lbs )
4000 -- 10.6
5000 -- 9.6
6000 -- 7.5

Clone
RPM -- Tq ( Ft-Lbs )
4000 -- 10.3
5000 -- 9.5
6000 -- 7.8

Steve
 
Thats not the difference I would have expected. The 206 can run 6 teeth less on a roadcourse and pulls as well as the clone out of the corners. Maybe that's just a really good 206! Just kidding ;)
 
gary10 said:
Thats not the difference I would have expected. The 206 can run 6 teeth less on a roadcourse and pulls as well as the clone out of the corners. Maybe that's just a really good 206! Just kidding ;)
Click to expand...

I will take a closed look at this when I get time, it is based on our best ever clone and a standard LO206 out of the box.

( Good tip from the desk of gary10, 6 less teeth, you all got that....rev lim...not......well maybe just a tick....lol )

Steve
 
Thanks for all the input guys, Sounds like they are close enough to go forward with trying to combine them starting out for the 2015 year.
 
steve baker said:
Just some quick torque data for now based on LO206 vs Clone.

Note - The actual torque numbers are lowered for presentation, but the % differences are correct. So yea the LO206 has a little more torque on the bottom end.
Click to expand...
I find it interesting that you've posted "cooked" data! Why would you do that?

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
??? Steve "insulted" you? He told you to add 3% to the numbers he posted.

You need to lighten up a bit, Al. Not everyone is out to "get you". Unless you want us to .................... <smile>.

Dave E.
 
My goodness, so much conjecture here, it seems that heart rates are up based on folks jumping to conclusions! Steve Baker has proven to be one of the more gentlemanly participants on this forum, always offering up assistance & sharing acquired knowledge with all that ask. Al, your comment "cooking the books" has an insinuating ring to it, so a bit of ownership on your part. Let's just move on and use the forum as it was intended. Merry Christmas Y'all!
 
xtreameracer said:
I am on the committee at a local track, i am going to try to get the lo206 engines going for the 2015 season. So not to have only a few show up and not have a class for them i thought about letting them race with the clones. The question i have is how close are the engines to run in the same class and same weight. This will be a 1/8 dirt oval also disk clutch open pipe clone they will be running with.
Click to expand...

I think others have hinted at this already, but you wont know for sure until you get them on the track. Do you have anyone that has both packages? That or some way to do a decent back to back tests would get you in ballpark. On a 1/8th I can't imagine you seeing being a huge disparity, based on the motor package but I could be wrong.

Mix em up, observe the result and change as you go.

Begin rant

One way or another sub 10 kart grids need to be a thing of the past. Why bother racing against three people when you can go concession karting league racing and race against more people. Now you can make various counter points to this (level of competition etc) if you wish, but it won't change the fact that people are gravitating towards concession/arrive and drive racing, and # of competitors is a primary reason for it. As well as convenience.

Four new indoor pavement tracks have been announced this month alone in the US. Owner driver type racing now more than ever needs to work hard to differentiate itself from these and offer something special so that these drivers will want to level up. Three kart grids often come as a result of addressing the squeaky wheel driver or parent at the track because they want to say they "won" or finished top three (in a three kart race).
We need to stop listening to and or/greasing squeaky wheels :)

JMHO

End rant
 
Last edited:
RadialFin said:
but it won't change the fact that people are gravitating towards concession/arrive and drive racing, and # of competitors is a primary reason for it. As well as convenience.
Click to expand...
I object to that! I have this idea that the primary reason that concession and arrive and drive is becoming more and more popular is because it's convenient. I doubt very seriously if a high percentage of these people, that avail themselves of these venues, have any idea about, or desire for, karts.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
You should consider the end result of mixing engines in the same class. Regardless of the noble intention to create equal competition for all, it'll probably never happen. One package will eventually become the standard. This will occur because one package will gain competitive (wins) or other significant advantage (acquisition, cost, maintenance, prestige, etc.). The balance of performance adjustments need to be continually tweaked, because once they stagnate, your series will turn into a “one-make race”. Consider making BOP adjustments seasonally, and throughout the season if necessary, unless of course your intention is to give favor to a particular package (sponsorship, prejudice, fear of the unknown, etc).

Because nobody wants to eat the worms once the can is opened.
 
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