racing lo206 and akra pro clone together

"This will be a 1/8 dirt oval also disk clutch open pipe clone they will be running with"

If you are going to allow the clones to use a expensive disc clutch or different pipes the LO 206 guys are going to complain.
One of the reasons people buy the LO 206 is to get away from the expensive clutches and the pipe of the week club associated with the clone.
If you allow the clone people to do do that then you will certainly have to allow the LO 206 people to do likewise.
There goes the whole concept of the low cost spec motor out the window. Along with it goes the basic idea that every one has the same motor and no one can buy an advantage. (check book racing)

"Because nobody wants to eat the worms once the can is opened"
Jim Eli
 
My goal is to have enough after the 2015 season to give them there own class. I think in time the 206 will take over the clones. I could be wrong ! I hear people say that they want to run one but dont want to show up to race where there is no class for them. By combining them for a season it would make for a easy transition.
 
I agree, the biggest problem i think i will have is the rest of the members of the committee and the track owner who is also the main parts guy. Less money to be made with the 206.

Bob Evans said:
Combining classes on a track is one thing, scoring is another. Scoring should be separate.
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xtreameracer said:
I agree, the biggest problem i think i will have is the rest of the members of the committee and the track owner who is also the main parts guy. Less money to be made with the 206.
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not.
It could be that they don't want to make their current racers mad. What you're suggesting is letting a completely different engine with more cc's, different carb, and heavier valve springs race under a completely different set of rules than the current racers have to race under.

Jimbo or Steve, is the 206 carb bigger or smaller than the clone carb in venturi area?
 
Bob Evans said:
Jimbo or Steve, is the 206 carb bigger or smaller than the clone carb in venturi area?
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The animal is bigger...........see below.

Clone = .615 venturi diameter ( uses a shaft / butterfly style ) - Picture on the right below.

Animal = .615 x .792 venturi egg shaped diameter ( uses a slide style ) - Picture on the left below.

Steve
 

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I posted the below last Feb about this same subject:
We race at the NFKC (103rd St) Jacksonville Fl. Our fall season consisted of 6 races. For those of you who have never been there, we have a 1000 foot back straight. Last year, the clones and LO206 ran together. We ran the first three with a clone (big pipe at 375 lbs) and won all three with a fast time of 39.5 seconds. We went back to our LO206 (completely stock at 350 lbs) for the next three and won them all with a fast time of 39.2. The difference in fast times was due to the 25 lb weight difference. We believe the engines are equivalent at equal weights. The only time we ever saw an advantage go to the clone was if the clone was drafting a LO206 down the long straight. The clone could pick up those extra RPMs needed to make a last second pass. I don't know about anyone else's experience with the LO206 but we kept the RPMs on the LO206 at just below the rev limiter. Our limiter comes in at 6040 to 6060. We ran the clone up to 6700.
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Other than believing the difference in times were due to weight, the rest is undisputed FACTS. IF (again not a proven fact) the karts were both run at the same weight, the times would probably be so close that the better handling kart and/or the better driver would win.
 
The clutch on the LO206 was a Noram GE drum clutch. The pipe was a RLV 5506 exhaust with spec silencer.
 
Honestly my experience is that they (using big pipe clone here) are "close enough" to be run together with some provisions that will depend on the track. Don't get too caught up in the technicalities, carb size etc. On track performance has the final say. Some will favor the slight increase in torque of the 206, others might favor the overrev of the clone.

i think combining them on the track will work well. You will get some belly achers that are mostly interested in their own agenda, that's a given. Take all the feedback you get, weigh it against your vision of having larger grids, tweak and iterate from there..

As far as on track gridding in concerned, I guess you have a few options, perhaps run them by your drivers
Run karts mixed in a random starting grid, but scored in separate classes.
Qualify separate and grid separate
 
We ran them together using a random pill draw for starting positions in first heat. The second heat was a reverse of the original pill draw. The final was run using points from the two heats to determine starting position (again mixed into one class). From my recollection, the final positions were not dominated by either engine. The were dispersed fairly equally.
 
steve baker said:
The animal is bigger...........see below.

Clone = .615 venturi diameter ( uses a shaft / butterfly style ) - Picture on the right below.

Animal = .615 x .792 venturi egg shaped diameter ( uses a slide style ) - Picture on the left below.

Steve
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And the animal carb doesn't have a throttle shaft or throttle plate, which would increase the animal's effective area considerably.
 
steve baker said:
Just some quick torque data for now based on LO206 vs Clone.

Note - The actual torque numbers are lowered for presentation, but the % differences are correct. So yea the LO206 has a little more torque on the bottom end.

LO206
RPM -- Tq ( Ft-Lbs )
4000 -- 10.6
5000 -- 9.6
6000 -- 7.5

Clone
RPM -- Tq ( Ft-Lbs )
4000 -- 10.3
5000 -- 9.5
6000 -- 7.8

Steve
Click to expand...

Very interesting. So that is almost a 3% torque bump for the Lo206. So here is the funny part. If I take our fastest IKF stock(we have mod too) clone driver that puts out 65 second laps, and multiply this time by .97 to represent the advantage the Lo206 has, I get 61 second laps. Our best Lo206 guys are running high 61's low 62's, BUT they carry 20#'s more weight than the stock clone as the weights are set at 365 and 345.

I share the opinion they can be ran together, some tracks maybe equally, others may require more weight on one package or another to even things out. The thing I like, being a fat guy, is that if your running a tighter track that has clones only and your overweight, you may have a better chance keeping up with a lo206.
 
I think "Old Grumpy" just got a bit too grumpy for his own liking, thought again about his post, and deleted it himself. ;) Very commendable, by the way.
For whatever reason, the tension between the clone faithful and the LO206 faithful seems to be pretty high.

It's all good.
XTream,
Ask your competitors how they feel about mixing the classes -- I think they should have a say in this (moreso than the parts seller anyway), and from my personal experience, the LO206 has INCREASED my consumables (chains, air filters, tires, preps, etc) sales. Your parts seller AND your clone racers still have a place to race and can be thankful for that. It appears to me that you are accommodating both sets of racers.
Once the Lo206 numbers increase, they can have a class of their own - in the meantime, there's no sense in making everyone stay at the track later.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
I think "Old Grumpy" just got a bit too grumpy for his own liking, thought again about his post, and deleted it himself. ;) Very commendable, by the way.
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I only deleted it because I noticed they weren't going to be scored together, which made my post moot.
If they were going to be scored together with different rules for the different motors, I still believe that defeats the purpose of having rules.
 
Totally agree with you on that, Bob. Actually, I'm not in favor of running together and scoring separately either -- too many issues come up when passing, blocking, wrecking, etc. running for points makes it even worse.

BUT, I think the idea that is being addressed by the OP (and others) is that instead of having 20 classes of 3 or 4 karts, or endangering leaving 2 guys out who show up with pit pass money to race, throw them on the track with a similar speed class and let them run. If their class (LO206 in this case) takes off, then you can give them their own class. Kart tracks have too many classes as it is right now, and as much as I like the Lo206 package, you've got to be reasonable about adding yet another class and keeping everyone at the track even later than we already do.
 
Brian, I didn't see where the original poster mentioned how many classes they were running. Most tracks don't actually run anywhere near 20 classes.

Agreed on running classes together and the reasons. It's usually not so bad on sprint track with 30 second or more lap times, but on an eighth mile dirt oval I would expect 11 or 12 second lap times and that could be a problem, especially on a one groove track if points are involved..
 
Not specifically on topic but related, the WKA NATIONAL ROAD RACING SPRINT Series runs the clones and the LO206 together in two classes with two different engine rulesets but at the same weights. They are scored together yet have their own rules for each engine package. I'm not a road racer so have no knowledge on how this is working.
 
We run 4-cycle as a "catch all" currently, and last year we had a WF(400#'s), Lo206(393#'s), and my 420cc Big Block(450#'s, mostly stock engine) all running heavy class very tight with each other and we had a great time. The thing is that our 19 turn sprint track is dominantly 2-cycle, so the 4-cycle class catches those that are older, have been injured, or on a low budget and want something faster than rental karts but not so fast that the chances of getting hurt go way up. A gold plated plastic medal around your neck and 1 minute on the podium is all you win, it's good clean fun. My most fun race to date was a 3 way battle for 4th to be perfectly honest. We welcome most of the common 4-cycle engine packages out there, if your too fast the track will simply put lead on you.
 
We currently only have clone classes. Three kid classes,stock lite,med, heavy,super heavy, s/a. When they show up open classes and one class of champs. Lite and heavy being the biggest.
 
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