Track Tac

Tire Game are you sick of it ?

Ted Hamilton said:
If you want to stop spending on tires, you have to make that spending pointless. That requires a tire that has very little change with heat cycles. I would start with hard, skinny tires. Of course some teams might try to buy new sets and shave them weekly, but if it proves of little benefit on track, they'd stop. Which is why karts need to be under-tired instead of over-tired. Add more HP and more duro hardness until the tires aren't the dominant factor in tuning. Besides, a kart that slides is fun to drive... :)
Click to expand...
If you would go to hard skinny tires with more H.P then it increases the cautions for kids and new drivers by 10 folds and everyone would be saying it's not safe, Nothing will make parents walk away quicker than MOM saying this is not safe.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
I'd argue that a monthly bill more than $1000 for ALL the expenses is karting is what's killing the sport... You can't legislate spending, but you can make it pointless... I'd rather race a kart than a wallet.
Click to expand...
Same question applies as above HOW would 10% of racers spending more than $1000 kill the sport ? Not everyone is forced to !!
 
racing promotor said:
If you would go to hard skinny tires with more H.P then it increases the cautions for kids and new drivers by 10 folds and everyone would be saying it's not safe, Nothing will make parents walk away quicker than MOM saying this is not safe.
Click to expand...

I see the caution issue as a failure of skill and training, easy addressed by more practice, more training, and different track prep and tires. Dry slick tracks suck for everything but one-groove freight train racing. Maybe we should look into that.

Maybe we should control who goes on track, and with what skill level? Not everyone belongs in a kart at 5 yrs. old. Or 25. Or 75. Maybe some kind of rating / licensing system would ensure a better raceday...

Treaded tires will also aid controllability. Several tracks have gone to that for youth classes and noted instant cures for multiple yellows.

And if 10% are spending that money and those are the only people winning, it creates the perception that everyone HAS to spend that money to win. And perception is everything. By letting more people at least pretend they have the chance to win, (even if it's not true...) the enjoyment and challenge of the sport is enhanced, and more people are inclined to keep doing it. Perhaps your region is radically different -- if so, consider yourself lucky. I'm for keeping pros in pro classes only, and affording other classes as feeder / driver development classes. Let the pros prep tires, do whatever -- there's your room for the 10%. But create and keep feeder classes that don't have prep, don't have hassle, don't have cherrypickers.

I don't think that the recreational racer and pro racer are mutually exclusive...they just can't race together in the same class. Karting needs both types of racer.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
I'd argue that a monthly bill more than $1000 for ALL the expenses is karting is what's killing the sport... You can't legislate spending, but you can make it pointless... I'd rather race a kart than a wallet.
Click to expand...

Thats for big events, paying big money. Lets compare apples to apples here, not apples to oranges. Local racers are not spending anywheres near that amount monthly. Chasing money, thats another story, but then you have spendable money to do that with.
 
The harder tire, more power was here. El tires and animals. What happened to those? The karters spoke with entries, there was no wheres enough entries to keep the El classes going compared to the pink and blue classes. Most karters whined about them. The animal classes were smaller than the clone classes, and karters didnt want to change motors switching back and forth on race day, clones won out.
Me personally dont care if we race on wheel barrows, but whatever the karters want will be the classes raced on race day.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
The harder tire, more power was here. El tires and animals. What happened to those? The karters spoke with entries, there was no wheres enough entries to keep the El classes going compared to the pink and blue classes. Most karters whined about them. The animal classes were smaller than the clone classes, and karters didnt want to change motors switching back and forth on race day, clones won out.
Me personally dont care if we race on wheel barrows, but whatever the karters want will be the classes raced on race day.
Click to expand...

I half agree. Kings were junk. ditto on a couple other Chinese brands billed as budget tires... There was high interest in cheap tires, though! The reason clones won over animals is that they were perceived as cheap, and quickly followed the flathead cycle to become over a thousand... Animals were probably a better choice for those with the foresight (or sense of history) to know better. But again, perception is everything. If the tracks hadn't adopted clones, clones would've died... Karting is a bit unique in that because there aren't real licensing and org barriers, the kart is leading the horse... (hehe.) Since racers can't be trusted to protect themselves from cost or take the long-term view for the good of the sport, the onus is on the tracks and orgs to band together and get some sensible rules that grow the base and also provide a good show. Since this discussion was about tires by the OP, it would be interesting to see if we went to rental-kart level duros and see what happened...
 
Ted Hamilton said:
I see the caution issue as a failure of skill and training, easy addressed by more practice, more training, and different track prep and tires. Dry slick tracks suck for everything but one-groove freight train racing. Maybe we should look into that.

Maybe we should control who goes on track, and with what skill level? Not everyone belongs in a kart at 5 yrs. old. Or 25. Or 75. Maybe some kind of rating / licensing system would ensure a better raceday...

Treaded tires will also aid controllability. Several tracks have gone to that for youth classes and noted instant cures for multiple yellows.

And if 10% are spending that money and those are the only people winning, it creates the perception that everyone HAS to spend that money to win. And perception is everything. By letting more people at least pretend they have the chance to win, (even if it's not true...) the enjoyment and challenge of the sport is enhanced, and more people are inclined to keep doing it. Perhaps your region is radically different -- if so, consider yourself lucky. I'm for keeping pros in pro classes only, and affording other classes as feeder / driver development classes. Let the pros prep tires, do whatever -- there's your room for the 10%. But create and keep feeder classes that don't have prep, don't have hassle, don't have cherrypickers.

I don't think that the recreational racer and pro racer are mutually exclusive...they just can't race together in the same class. Karting needs both types of racer.
Click to expand...
Ya let's have people spend a bunch of money to come prove you feel they don't have the skill set it takes to use that equipment ,so they cannot race and have to sell there stuff, why not just add they must take a 50% hit right away as well, talk about killing the sport, Skill & training is called seat time & the only way there getting that is to race on track.
 
Quarter Midgets require a license (USAC or QMA), kill switches and a driver training program. If AKRA, WKA and/or NKA really wanted to fix karting, they would come up with a national incentive program for tracks to recruit new drivers, then join and follow a set beginners safety program.

Currently, you buy a kart, shove your kid in it and their first laps on the track are 2 full speed warmups and then straight to a heat and feature. Then the flagman throws a fit because said kid doesn't know where to line up or what proper pace speed should be. That is 100% a failure at the track management level but they never admit it, always just chew out the parent and frustrate families into leaving.
 
Bob Evans said:
Slight correction.
It was the racers adopting the clone that made it successful. The tracks are going to run whatever the majority of racers go with.
Click to expand...

No, I stand by my original comment. Karters are steering the ship instead of orgs, but only because the tracks are weak and not exercising their power. If all the tracks banded together, defined common classes, and didn't flex, the racers would bend to the structure. Instead, everyone's competing for the same pool with various enticements....It's like churches fighting over members in the same town.....get over it and go find new blood... So, yes, I agree that racers drove the clone craze....but the tracks allowed it by their inaction and lack of central control. In reality, WKA allowed it by not forcing tracks to run like a truly sanctioned body. And don't get me started on WKA.....the USAC of karting. Love 'em and hate 'em at the same time.
 
Seeing as this has transitoned to engines and cost . I throw in my 2 cents .
When we were series racing there was always a box coming from the ups man if not two for extra parts and spares . Then you have travel, motel , fuel, food ,entry fees and inevitably a trip too the store for something .
1000.00 Dollars is not to far off and thats not buying tires .
If by chance you took a day off work that cost needs factored in as well.

This I can not ever see working .
[Maybe we should control who goes on track, and with what skill level? Not everyone belongs in a kart at 5 yrs. old. Or 25. Or 75. Maybe some kind of rating / licensing system would ensure a better raceday...]
Now I must join an organization be trained by them and then judged as too my skill level . No Thank You .
 
racing promotor said:
Skill & training is called seat time & the only way there getting that is to race on track.
Click to expand...

What ridiculousness. the only way to get RACE experience is racing, but experience in practice is invaluable. Race cars of any level are dangerous. Why would you be arguing to raise the danger level by allowing inexperienced drivers on track without proving they can handle it? Just because we're scared to turn away an entry fee?

Someone should be teaching them proper lines and technique. They should be starting scratch until they can prove they can keep up. And then they should fall in their normal qualifying position... Along they way they're also learning setup and all the other 10 million variables...

Tires should be the least of their worries until they can actually drive and setup, which is also why I'm for a good non-prep tire solution... to eliminate one of the variables that's harder to grasp and that complicates not only the raceday, but also the whole preceding week...
 
Wka shot themselfs in the foot , tried to force the kart racer to do something they did not want .
WKA exists because of the racer .
The racer does not exist because of WKA .
 
Licensing isn't hard to make work....the tracks simply says, "to race here, you must go through our driving school and pass the test!" The test could be 5 laps of times within 10% of a normal race pace and without radical line variations, no spins or incidents. And demonstrated ability to see flagger, and respond appropriately to each flag. Not hard. Not even necessarily costly except for a sat. afternoon of time by track staff and volunteers (who should be experience racers, who could be earning free entry fee for next race) and a willingness to promote the sport...
 
When I joined WKA and IKF , I was granted the right to compete in there sanctioned races. Regardless of age or skill level .
 
JoshuaGuiher said:
Quarter Midgets require a license (USAC or QMA), kill switches and a driver training program. If AKRA, WKA and/or NKA really wanted to fix karting, they would come up with a national incentive program for tracks to recruit new drivers, then join and follow a set beginners safety program.

Currently, you buy a kart, shove your kid in it and their first laps on the track are 2 full speed warmups and then straight to a heat and feature. Then the flagman throws a fit because said kid doesn't know where to line up or what proper pace speed should be. That is 100% a failure at the track management level but they never admit it, always just chew out the parent and frustrate families into leaving.
Click to expand...
How is it the tracks fault that you didnt prepare your child?
Also WKA is all but dead in dirt oval, so imo they have no say so
 
flattop1 said:
So the new kart family should purchase all the proper equipment , pay the needed fee's . Then be informed that they were not good enough , try again later ?
Click to expand...
It always amazes me on threads like this how the ones that are against whatever because they feel it's a bad ideal, can come up with 10 REAL bad ideas on how to fix it.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
What ridiculousness. the only way to get RACE experience is racing, but experience in practice is invaluable. Race cars of any level are dangerous. Why would you be arguing to raise the danger level by allowing inexperienced drivers on track without proving they can handle it? Just because we're scared to turn away an entry fee?

Someone should be teaching them proper lines and technique. They should be starting scratch until they can prove they can keep up. And then they should fall in their normal qualifying position... Along they way they're also learning setup and all the other 10 million variables...

Tires should be the least of their worries until they can actually drive and setup, which is also why I'm for a good non-prep tire solution... to eliminate one of the variables that's harder to grasp and that complicates not only the raceday, but also the whole preceding week...
Click to expand...
Ridiculousness This is coming from the guy that just got done saying nothing but hard skinny tires on higher H.P, then after people invest in the equipment they gotta take the chance he feels there good enough to be allowed to race. That's FUNNY !!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top