Track Tac

Track sizes, a comparison.

I think the biggest point some are missing here is Al's point about track size and where we get it from, and if we don't measure it ourselves, whether we should believe that number or not. A track we race at often decided that they were a little bigger since they changed the configuration slightly a few years ago, so they changed the length of the track in the computer program that prints out the race results based on transponder input. Well, the club running the track isn't even close, lol. A typical printout will have my driver's blue plate Jr Sportsman champ averaging well over 60 mph. I can do the arithmetic; based on the rpm's off the Mychron on his fastest laps, his maximum speed is a bit over 45 mph.
 
we cut in a backyard track at a buddies place,, 1/4 mile trioval,, we measured our inside distance from center to center,, on the inside of track and made it 375 feet,, then we radioused the corners at I think 52-54% of the length,, that way your not pinching a corner off and then bowed it out for the tri-oval on the back stretch,,, we did use some flags to follow with the tractor ,, didn't use the Hardhats though,, lol,,, and I have to say,, we have the makings of a MINI DEGGA ,, took bout 3 hours to stake it out,, but worth the time knowing you can get around the corners really good.
 
alvin l nunley said:
To start, I don't understand why you're so angry! 2nd, with my software you can use the driving line for the calculations, but it's so hard for people to even tell me the radius of the track, there's no hope of getting the radius of the driving line. In any case, the two, for the most part, are pretty close together as far as calculating stagger. In other words, using the inside line of the turn, or the driving line, gets you very close to the same stagger. I've done all the calculations.

Tell me, if you're going to a track you've never been to, wouldn't it be nice to know the radius of the turns so you could be ready with the proper stagger, or at least close, or would you rather just show up and hope you have the right pair of tires? Of course you could have 10 sets of tires, but does the newbie come to the track with 10 sets of tires?

What I'm saying is; you don't need to get it exactly right, close is good enough. Most people don't pay any attention to feet, let alone inches.
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Let me ask you this Al, if you can use your method and come up with say 1 1/4" stagger for a certain size track, does that mean that anyone who is using more or less than 1 1/4 stagger is using the wrong stagger for that track? Any given track you go to, you will not see everyone using the same rear stagger. Some might be on 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 while others are using 1" or 7/8" instead and are just as fast or faster. Heck the top 5 karts in any given class could all be using different stagger and still be less than a tenth of a second apart. Certain chassis work best in a certain range of rear stagger, like my impulse, factory setup calls for 7/8-1" rear stagger for the baseline setup, and that is what I am on at most of the tracks around here. Occasionally I will go to 1 1/4 if I feel like I need more turning power, but not very often. What I'm getting at is, stagger isn't something that is always going to be determined by the size of the track alone, there are other factors that determine the stagger you use, including driving style of the driver. Some drivers like to use more stagger and flat foot it all the way around the track while others use less stagger and lift in the turns to make the kart turn. Just think about it is all I'm saying.
 
W5R said:
Let me ask you this Al, if you can use your method and come up with say 1 1/4" stagger for a certain size track, does that mean that anyone who is using more or less than 1 1/4 stagger is using the wrong stagger for that track? Any given track you go to, you will not see everyone using the same rear stagger. Some might be on 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 while others are using 1" or 7/8" instead and are just as fast or faster. Heck the top 5 karts in any given class could all be using different stagger and still be less than a tenth of a second apart. Certain chassis work best in a certain range of rear stagger, like my impulse, factory setup calls for 7/8-1" rear stagger for the baseline setup, and that is what I am on at most of the tracks around here. Occasionally I will go to 1 1/4 if I feel like I need more turning power, but not very often. What I'm getting at is, stagger isn't something that is always going to be determined by the size of the track alone, there are other factors that determine the stagger you use, including driving style of the driver. Some drivers like to use more stagger and flat foot it all the way around the track while others use less stagger and lift in the turns to make the kart turn. Just think about it is all I'm saying.
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Caster is where you get your turning power..... not stagger. Just think about it.
 
I don't think there are but two people who have replied to Al that even get the jist of what he's even talking about here. Common sense tells everyone that many things come into play with stagger, BUT all he is wondering about is the different layouts that can be conformed from 660' of track length. Look at nothing but the given distance. If you think the layout of that given distance can't impact stagger, some of you smart fellas better think again. :)
 
the problem lies in the tracks and the way that the promoter decides to advertise....going to a track and finding it longer or shorter with tighter or "loser" corners does make a difference in setup...but I think that al does hit on some important facts....having an accurate "lay" of the track would be beneficial to reading the track before you get there.
 
mikey56 said:
the problem lies in the tracks and the way that the promoter decides to advertise....going to a track and finding it longer or shorter with tighter or "loser" corners does make a difference in setup...but I think that al does hit on some important facts....having an accurate "lay" of the track would be beneficial to reading the track before you get there.
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Sorry Mikey,

I read it as doesn't instead of does. My bad I apologize.
 
rebsfan4 said:
No changes at all huh? None?You sure bout that? Travel much?
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is this referencing to the right post? I asked that because there's nothing in the post it's referencing about changing, or not changing anything specifically. Certainly it doesn't say, "no changes".
 
alvin l nunley said:
is this referencing to the right post? I asked that because there's nothing in the post it's referencing about changing, or not changing anything specifically. Certainly it doesn't say, "no changes".
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You are correct Al. I read it wrong. I thought I read doesn't instead of does. Sorry bout that.
 
Wow, guess I didn't read it like that.

Bryan, could you answer my questions since you jumped on those other guys in this thread too?
You are speaking as an authority, I thought you might want to clarify your statement about turning power and rotation for us.

Thanks
 
I assume Al's spread sheet gets you close from what I've read reported by others, on this site. My remembering of going to new tracks is I had no clue what gear to start with, without asking someone for help. But one round on the track, with feed back from my son and the tack, and I could put on what was needed to be competitive. I think Al's spread sheet has value.

I trust his judgement when he explains how many tracks are not in actual size as advertised. Also, when ever I go to a high school football game, I sit up top and keep waiting for hot laps which never happen. IMHO, all high school track running events, should be on a dirt track around the football field, banked to eliminate the need for a staggered start. ... :)

And if they complain about not being able to race on the dirt when it rains, i'd respond go to the parking lot at the mall then, because asphalt's for getting here and dirt's for racing.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Wow, guess I didn't read it like that.

Bryan, could you answer my questions since you jumped on those other guys in this thread too?
You are speaking as an authority, I thought you might want to clarify your statement about turning power and rotation for us.

Thanks
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I'm not speaking as an authority. I'm speaking from my opinion just as anyone else. As for your questions....you a Sprint car wizard are you? Figure it out. I don't need to clarify anything for you.

Can you clarify how to not get busted trying to use ether when you shouldn't?
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Wow, guess I didn't read it like that.

Bryan, could you answer my questions since you jumped on those other guys in this thread too?
You are speaking as an authority, I thought you might want to clarify your statement about turning power and rotation for us.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I think of turning power as being something the front tires give you and rotation something the rear tires on a staggered solid axle give you. The two are combined to get around a turn with a LTO, with a "real race car which turns right and left", only the front turning power is available to you.

The front tires can only turn the front end via input from the driver or input from the bank of the track; a staggered solid axle can rotate the whole thing on a specific line determined by setup and how forces are used by the driver.

In theory with a LTO, it's possible to get up to speed, put your foot to the floor, take your hands off the wheel, and go around the track. It's not possible with a "real race car which turns right and left", because it gets no rotation from it's non-staggered solid axle.

How'd I do with my thoughts on it?
 
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