Track Tac

Undetectable hoosier tread prep, mini outlaw

It's tough when club tracks make goody two shoe rules to kiss member butts and the members are not willing to pay for support needed to insure rules are followed.
Same with tracks who make dumb rules to appease complainer fearing they will loose customers.
Fact is the same complainers will be the first to leave because they are there for their own feel good or little jimmy or janes trophy and accolades and not for the racing.
 
racing promotor said:
I've formed an opinion, which is they have a very poorly written rule !! There rule is written in GRAY vs black and white !!
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Agreed

Only way it is written ok is if the intent is that if they catch you prepping at the track they will take your tires.

Looking back I can't find where the duroing of tires came into the thread.
Without going and looking for it I don't remember duro being in the rules either.

If it is then I guess they also take your tires if you fail the duro test.

If they do do you dismount the tires and keep your rims?
Maybe they need rims for year end awards and that's why the rule is there in the first place? ... :)
 
paulkish said:
Recently around here a lot of car tracks will do nothing at all about off track prepping and you see more and more car with tires both on and off the car with clear wrap around them.
They have nothing in their rules about any specific duro reading.
All they care about is you don't get caught prepping AT the track making them get involved with prepping BS.
And that you have the correctly marked type and brand of tires insuring them they get their kick back from retailers.
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Big cars wrap tires after grooving, siping, and grinding to keep the rubber fresh. Any big car track worth it's salt is taking samples and sending them for lab testing.
 
I was the one stating the venom invisible . So your barking at the wrong people. This product is openly available to every single person that wishs to buy it.

When the clone first came out people started cleaning them up. No parts added just truing up the cylinder, rod, crank. So should they have had a life time ban? What about the cone in the carb to help add fuel past the restrictor plates in the flatheads, should they get a life time ban? Moth balls in the air filter with a screen, life time ban?

Race track "worth a salt"all around the country take tire samples. There are prepped tires passing the lab in any form of racing. From asphalt late models down to R/C cars. Not just with the prep I gave information on.

Ask Bloomquest if he uses tire prep... Oh wait he's been bounced for it!
 
Dougherty#39 said:
I was the one stating the venom invisible . So your barking at the wrong people. This product is openly available to every single person that wishs to buy it.

When the clone first came out people started cleaning them up. No parts added just truing up the cylinder, rod, crank. So should they have had a life time ban? What about the cone in the carb to help add fuel past the restrictor plates in the flatheads, should they get a life time ban? Moth balls in the air filter with a screen, life time ban?

Race track "worth a salt"all around the country take tire samples. There are prepped tires passing the lab in any form of racing. From asphalt late models down to R/C cars. Not just with the prep I gave information on.

Ask Bloomquest if he uses tire prep... Oh wait he's been bounced for it!
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I don't like lifetime bans. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of kart racers and chemical use.

I'm not saying there aren't guys on the big stage cheating on their tires, but at least there is testing and a standard for it. Along with that, it isn't unheard of for winners of big late model races to be busted for tires out side of the standard.
 
If you just have a duro rule then why are you looking for undetectable prep? I would think you could prep them at home and then at the track you dont prep them as long as they pass the duro rule you should be fine so why are you guys looking for undetectable prep? If they arnt sending it off to a lab you should be fine? I dont do the kind of racing where we have to worry about it. We have maxxis and we prep those but that is just my thinking.
 
Dougherty#39 said:
I was the one stating the venom invisible . So your barking at the wrong people. This product is openly available to every single person that wishs to buy it.

When the clone first came out people started cleaning them up. No parts added just truing up the cylinder, rod, crank. So should they have had a life time ban? What about the cone in the carb to help add fuel past the restrictor plates in the flatheads, should they get a life time ban? Moth balls in the air filter with a screen, life time ban?

Race track "worth a salt"all around the country take tire samples. There are prepped tires passing the lab in any form of racing. From asphalt late models down to R/C cars. Not just with the prep I gave information on.

Ask Bloomquest if he uses tire prep... Oh wait he's been bounced for it!
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Wait a minute back up... What is this moth balls in the air filter about? Thats a new one
 
The word UNDETECTABLE in the Title of this thread is a dead giveaway of someone wanting to cheat. any prep advise given is to clearly help someone cheat with a prep that will pass tech, a prep that will be UNDETECTABLE to any tech official looking for someone breaking the rules i.e. a cheater my advice is to learn how to drive use air pressure and set up to get the most out of your kart. if you can't do it without prep find a track or class that will let you dope your tires to your hearts extent.
 
I however do not think anyone giving product advise is in the wrong. the racer asked a question and people gave him the answer he/she was after. Motor guys will cheat a motor if you pay them to do that. it's not the business persons job to be the racers conscience.
 
J'-remy said:
The word UNDETECTABLE in the Title of this thread is a dead giveaway of someone wanting to cheat. any prep advise given is to clearly help someone cheat with a prep that will pass tech, a prep that will be UNDETECTABLE to any tech official looking for someone breaking the rules i.e. a cheater my advice is to learn how to drive use air pressure and set up to get the most out of your kart. if you can't do it without prep find a track or class that will let you dope your tires to your hearts extent.
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I agree. The OP is looking for a way to cheat, plain and simple. OP needs to focus on their own program to gain speed instead of trying to find ways around the rules.

I also can't fault the experts for sharing their expertise, and I understand fully that if a person wants to cheat, and they pay you to do it, that doesn't make you the cheater. Personally, if I am the business owner, I don't want anything to do with discussions on gray areas of rules in the public forum. Now if you want to talk on the phone or PM or otherwise, thats your prerogative, but I wouldn't want it being public.
 
I guess I am looking at this post differently. I've got nothing to hide and will offer the same advice publicly as I would privately.
The question was about "undetectable" prep supposedly being used at the Outlaw Kart Nationals.
I am very familiar with these cars, tires, and track.
Trust me, there is a LOT of prep going on within (and outside of) the written rules.
There are many preps that are advertised as "undetectable." We make no such claim (see my original post) and do not offer an undetectable prep within our prep line, although our prep has been known to pass lab tests at every level of motorsports that I am aware of.
The primary tire tech at ECS has been duro on the RR for the past 15 years or more. Everyone that runs the nationals knows this.
Now, some other winged outlaw tracks don't enforce a "no-prep" rule, but most will check the tire sidewall for appropriate compound and size tire, and occasionally check with a durometer.
It appeared to me, that the OP was asking about the prep being used @ ECS so that he could offer it for sale through his shop? Is that not correct?
No matter where you race, it's the racers' responsibility to ensure that they are competing within the rules of their track, class, sanctioning body, etc.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
our prep has been known to pass lab tests at every level of motorsports that I am aware of.
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Has prep ever failed lab testing for a racer using it?
With the high cost of lab testing for tracks and promoters has it ever been tested in a lab of a winning racer using your prep?

"has been known to pass lab tests" The lab reported it to you or did you hear it from a racer?
 
Has any kart racer reading on here ever had a kart tire "lab" tested and saw results from the accredited well know testing company?
If the answer is no then we can put this whole thing to rest.

If not or your tire will not be sent out, all you have to do is have the right tire on, pass what ever duro needs passed and pass the sniffer to be deemed legal where you race.

It's no different then your engine and fuel.
If it passes tech your ok because that IS the standard for all the racers at the track.

Spirit and intent without being proven is an opinion, lying, cheating, conjured up imagination and BULL no different then the Salem Witch Trials.
Rules should have no spirit and intent, they only need to be written and provable.

Track and promoters rules do not have to be reasonable they only need to be what those your paying your cash to say they are.

If a track takes samples from your tires and you don't get results then they didn't fork over any money to test your tires.
 
Labs don't typically report to anyone other than the person paying for the testing to be done, Paul.
If the racer is not "dinged" then it "supposedly" passed the lab test..
With that said, I am sure that many samples never even make it to a lab for testing. Others are deemed "inconclusive" or "within spec." after lab testing.
FWIW, USAC just busted a bunch of guys this past weekend...none (to my knowledge) were using our preps.
I can assure you that if a lab is doing even very basic testing and analysis, our preps should show up.
The quality of the lab, the chemicals being looked for, and the lab tech. all play a part in proper analysis.
No different than the quality of testing done on supposed covid cases.
Unlike Covid testing, I'm sure there are very few false positives. Not to say it can't happen (the racers all claim they're innocent,) but lab testing for concentrations of specific chemicals is pretty obvious. A "good" lab test should find most of what guys are typically using (karts and big cars.)
 
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