Box Stock

When should I no longer see metal fragments in oil....?

I wouuld say the rod is hitting the bottom of the barrel, and it had to sound bad. Are all of the govenor parts out, including the arm?
 
Devil-D-Dawg said:
I knew a guy who used those metal flake additives to seal up a leaking valve seal. In the end, he fused his exhaust manifold to the block because the SG of the oil with additives changes the heat transfer. I would not use the stuff if you can avoid it. If you do, get a flow check at room temp and do one at running temps - the reading shouldn't be higher than 4X the baseline.
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? maybe you should open the garage door... those fumes are starting to take effect....LOL!!!
 
I hadn't seen any other posts! I'm busier than a wildcat in beach ball. Yeah, its easy to explain - you need to do a SG test. Most oil guys can help you. A lot of people don't care to go this far, but if you are interested in pushing the envelope, you have to shove the girl-scout!
 
Devil-D-Dawg you be trippin man LOL. Im not doing a UOA on this haha you gotta be kidding me.

Every single part of the governor was removed. I have the pulse tapped from the arm hole. Haven't looked any deeper into what it might have been. Just took a quick look at the cam, valvetrain etc and it all looks intact. I could be wrong, but I just cant imagine a piece of aluminum doing this much damage, had to be steel surely. Motor always sounded just fine......

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qz46avmj5kev7rz/JamesFlapTest2.mp4
 
I had the 'metal in the oil' problem. Sent the oil off for analysis. I came back with 1000ppm of NICKEL??? and they red-flagged it as a problem. Also had 5% fuel contamination, but that's another story.
And the oil had 1000ppm of zinc, just so you'll know that didn't help. I'm more of the opinion that the zinc is only necessary for break-in, after which it doesn't matter. And I doubt with 10.8 lbs of spring pressure it's ever gonna wipe the cam anyway.
Pulled the cover off and it looked to me like the cam had worn on the trailing side of the lobe ramp. Haven't gotten around to checking it.
The exh. lobe also had a razor thin sliver of metal on the side that just flecked off when I touched it, making me think cam wear.
I think floating the crap out of the valves in Purple Plate whacked the cam.
Cylinder wall looked great (I didn't pull the piston to check rings), piston skirt that I could see had minor micro scratches.
Put in a new cam and lost the side cover next race. :) Fortunately no damage other than pride.
 
That's the second time ive heard someone mention zinc during breakin.. My thought has always been to avoid it during breakin, then run an oil with it once everything is bedded in. Took another look at the parts a couple of nights ago, cant find anything wrong with the crank, crank bearings, cam, pushrods etc etc at all. Only think I can think of was that I might have let something get in there. No idea what though.
 
might try draining the oil from the engine and flushing the engine out good with mineral spirits, then fill it back up with marvel mystery oil and let it sit in the bottom end for a day or 2, then before draining the MMO, turn the engine upside down for a few min to let the MMO get into the top end and valvetrain and drain back to the bottom, turn the crank by hand a few times, then drain the MMO and put whatever oil you normally use back in it and run the engine for awhile, then drain the oil and check for metallic flakes again. The mineral spirits should clean the engine out real good, and the marvel oil will lube everything back up good so you arent starting the engine with the bearings and everything dry. You could be seeing metallic flakes over and over from the initial engine break in if you havent flushed the engine clean since break in. Just my opinion
 
Bumpy said:
I had the 'metal in the oil' problem. Sent the oil off for analysis. I came back with 1000ppm of NICKEL??? and they red-flagged it as a problem. Also had 5% fuel contamination, but that's another story.
And the oil had 1000ppm of zinc, just so you'll know that didn't help. I'm more of the opinion that the zinc is only necessary for break-in, after which it doesn't matter. And I doubt with 10.8 lbs of spring pressure it's ever gonna wipe the cam anyway.
Pulled the cover off and it looked to me like the cam had worn on the trailing side of the lobe ramp. Haven't gotten around to checking it.
The exh. lobe also had a razor thin sliver of metal on the side that just flecked off when I touched it, making me think cam wear.
I think floating the crap out of the valves in Purple Plate whacked the cam.
Cylinder wall looked great (I didn't pull the piston to check rings), piston skirt that I could see had minor micro scratches.
Put in a new cam and lost the side cover next race. :) Fortunately no damage other than pride.
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New Mobil1 oil has 1300ppm zinc, most oils are 1000ppm the new Lucas kart oil is 3800ppm zinc why would your concentration be alarming?
 
Looking at picture 5 the impact has been occuring all the way up inside the lower end of the piston. There had to be evidence of something laying in the crankcase,
 
Nothing in there that I've found yet, its vanished! Damn halloween metallic ghosts!
I put the motor away on the shelf for now while. Will update the thread if I find anything out.
 
Kart43 the Zinc ppm is not alarming.
Just wanted folks to know that I was using an oil w/Zinc and it didn't help wear.
The red flag was for Nickel which could only come from steel parts wearing.
 
The zddp additives are deposited onto bearing surfaces as a sacrificial layer of lubricative metal. The difference in the finishes of the bearings and moving parts in my engines using low zinc and high zinc content oils were frightening...and not in favor of low zinc oils.
 
RadialFin said:
Nothing in there that I've found yet, its vanished! Damn halloween metallic ghosts!
I put the motor away on the shelf for now while. Will update the thread if I find anything out.
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What was your bore clearance when you built the engine?
Reason being is I have seen a fair amount of scuffing on the piston skirts when people don't hone the bore out a touch and they are too tight. If you were running lean and basically pinned for several minutes on that large track you run, it could have tried to seize and broke off a chunk of skirt, which could have been chewed up by the rotating parts therefore no evidence.
 
I didn't check bore clearance. I can't imagine it being lean at 100%, but I've been wrong before. Certainly to sign of detonation on the crown or head.
 
Plug color?
I have to run about a chocolate brown plug color to keep under 400* on our track, and that is on NGK B7ES's. It never detonates just gets slow and power falls off when it starts to run hot.
You'd think seizure due to leaning would be a 2-cycle only problem but it's not. Aluminum piston inside a cast iron sleeve....enough heat on that piston and you know what happens.
Most of them come with about .001" per side piston to bore clearance or .002" overall, I take mine out to .003-.0035".
 
B7ES here too. Ceramic insulator was clean, base ring black. Didn't really peer down deep to the mixture ring. I could imagine the piston scuffing in this motor if it got too lean alright since its aircooled. Need to get a CHT probe, I have the datalogging unit for it. I would be surprised if it got hot, never even seemed that hot to touch, but that's fairly subjective.
Main jet is drilled to .035", but who knows what the actual size is!
 
I ran a .038" drilled main and the GX-140 tube with a larger pipe, with the smaller pipe I ran a Honda #90 mainjet(about .036") and the GX140 tube.
The larger pipe dropped my temps but it also ran lean until I upsized the main jet. It was weird because everyone on bob's said it wouldn't matter but in just a couple laps after adding the large pipe I was running hot and it would start to cut out on me.
Black base ring should be ok though, strange.
 
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