A GO TO thread for the new or newer dirt oval racers offering Info & Support

What do you mean by improper mounting? What are ways you see them improperly mounted?
To high is the biggest one, to far right or left, then If there mounted ok for height pulling on seat to line hole up to bolt putting seat in a bind, If you remove any seat bolts the seat should stay in same position keeping hole lined up.
 
Here's what we do to fix a 4 wheel drift (in order.)

1.) More bite in the tires.
2.) Lower left %.
3.) Raise the roll center.*

* When we run a small temporary (fairground) track that typically is a total dust bowl, we raise the seat 1 inch.
All of our karts have an extra hole drilled in the seat straight below the existing one, and we use a 1" rubber spacer to block the front of the seat up on the seat slides.



-----
?Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
This makes sense to me as well. Raise the roll center which helps transfer the weight to the right side. I originally set up my sons (15 year old 5’10 195lbs) seat as low and left as I could. Luckily it has been stuck with Brians prep program and haven’t needed to move the seat up but will definitely keep this in mind. My mentality of building stock cars never would have thought of this . 🤦‍♂️
 
This makes sense to me as well. Raise the roll center which helps transfer the weight to the right side. I originally set up my sons (15 year old 5’10 195lbs) seat as low and left as I could. Luckily it has been stuck with Brians prep program and haven’t needed to move the seat up but will definitely keep this in mind. My mentality of building stock cars never would have thought of this . 🤦‍♂️
How low do you have it off top of axle ?
At his size you might not have much available to move.
 
How low do you have it off top of axle ?
At his size you might not have much available to move.
To be honest I haven’t measured the distance. I’m a dad that supports both of my sons karting efforts and I only wish we had more time to devote to the sport. We have fun and continue to improve each time we can make it out. Much due to this website and Carlson Motorsports.
 
To be honest I haven’t measured the distance. I’m a dad that supports both of my sons karting efforts and I only wish we had more time to devote to the sport. We have fun and continue to improve each time we can make it out. Much due to this website and Carlson Motorsports.
Just pointing out info at his size you can't go to high, I would not want to go over 9.5 "
Before doing that look to lower left, and more bite in tires, pretty sure I'm safe to say Brian would agree with pointing that out.

Good luck !!
 
Just pointing out info at his size you can't go to high, I would not want to go much over 9.5 "
Before doing that look to lower left, and more bite in tires, pretty sure I'm safe to say Brian would agree with pointing that out.

Good luck !!
Much appreciated I’m never too old and certainly never too smart to learn from others. Whatever we have thrown together has been meeting our goals so far running with the big dogs. Both boys have been running well and learning each time out. Our first win is right around the corner. (Our competitors words not mine) we race against against a good group. We keep karting fun. We aren’t the guys with 30 sets of tires .. but we make what we have work and it’s important to me I teach my boys when I can, the ins and outs.
 
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CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
It also depends on what brand/kind of seat too. I've seen some with big extensions on the back that would be difficult at best to go off of.
I wish there were an industry standard measured from the top of the driver's shoulders to the top of the axle rather than the way we all do it now (top of the seat back to the top of the axle.) I think that would be a little more accurate, especially with different body types / builds of drivers. Then factor in jr drivers that weigh 50 pounds total versus a 250 adult driver...you bet, it makes a difference!
If I said as a general rule that we're on 8 3/4" off the axle to the top of the seat, some people would call me nuts. Keep in mind that track size, banking, amount of grip, etc. all factor in as well. If you're running a low/no bite paperclip bullring oval track versus a 1/4 mile high bite circle track requires a totally different set-up (tires, left %, cross, caster, camber, and yes, possibly even CoG.)
Back in the early '80s, we didn't have all the preps that we have today -- we didn't have nearly the adjustments that we have today!
For that matter, there were no "factory" set-ups online to reference. We adjusted karts to accommodate the track conditions. Today, a lot of the time, we simply change the amount of prep/bite we've got in our tires. This is a huge difference, but yet another variable in the equation of making speed.
There is no "one size fits all" in kart set up. You run what works best for you, your chassis, and your track.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Since I've seen a lot of chasing rpm with plate classes newer kids at the tracks lately and see more and more post on here about it, Reminder you will never get there until the driver is ready when he or she are not staying in the racing groove as they build no momentum, plus when they enter the turn to low to quick and stay in the throttle you will have a handling issue middle to off the turn ( DO NOT START MAKING CHASSIS ADJUSTMENTS ) if any kart does not enter right it cannot exit right, VERY important to acknowledge whats going on with the driver holding the wheel, before you work on the kart and gearing ( you need to be close ) work on them a lot more because until the are maximizing momentum you'll be chasing your tail, also If tires are not right you'll chase rpm as well. Chasing gearing when the driver is not maximizing momentum only teaches bad habits on gearing like being on a 12/69 when you should be on say a 14/63, anyone watching closely can see the racing groove and if the driver isn't in it until they are keep working on them not the kart.
 
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Is there a way you can tell how much to prep your tires? 25 tire temps.jpg
Tire temperatures are a good way of checking whether you are doing it right or not. A handheld infrared gun is what I used. Checking the tire temps often will give you a pattern when compared against lap times. In other words, when you lay down that fast lap, and check the tire temps, you establish a pattern over time. It's not easy. Write everything down and over time you'll see a pattern of what's good and what's bad. A good spreadsheet, as shown, can help. Just fill in the red cells.
 

T-roy

Member
Tire temperatures are a good way of checking whether you are doing it right or not. A handheld infrared gun is what I used. Checking the tire temps often will give you a pattern when compared against lap times. In other words, when you lay down that fast lap, and check the tire temps, you establish a pattern over time. It's not easy. Write everything down and over time you'll see a pattern of what's good and what's bad. A good spreadsheet, as shown, can help. Just fill in the red cells.
Does this work well with dirt racing. Seems like you would have to check them before coming off of the track. That wont work for us. They drive off the rack and through the grass and dust and everything to get to the karts cart. They wont wait on someone to check tires. Would this still work after getting back to the pits??
 
Does this work well with dirt racing. Seems like you would have to check them before coming off of the track. That wont work for us. They drive off the rack and through the grass and dust and everything to get to the karts cart. They wont wait on someone to check tires. Would this still work after getting back to the pits??
I'm sure that the sooner you measure them, after coming off the track, the more accurate the information would be, but I think you could still get good information in your situation. Better than no information.
 
Does this work well with dirt racing. Seems like you would have to check them before coming off of the track. That wont work for us. They drive off the rack and through the grass and dust and everything to get to the karts cart. They wont wait on someone to check tires. Would this still work after getting back to the pits??
All you can count on with tire temps on dirt is to confirm a certain tire is being over worked during the run, you can do the same with pressure gain.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
All you can count on with tire temps on dirt is to confirm a certain tire is being over worked during the run, you can do the same with pressure gain.
I'd agree (for the most part) but you can tell a good bit more than that, especially on tracks that bite up and build some real heat in the tires.) If you're seeing 100* or less, then you're not going to be able to use that info very well. When you get the tires up to their operating temperature that they were designed for, then you can start to see some things a little more clearly. Of course, wear patterns, localized heat, etc can all be seen and felt with the bare hand as well.
The biggest thing I've seen is exactly what Ken is saying -- if one corner of the kart (ie hottest tire) is being overworked, then you can adjust for it (if necessary.)
 

akenson16

Member
what are the most common adjustments that you experience guy's make at the track and are most effective? i know tires are big but just wondering what are the main things you adjust to dial it in besides tires when a kart pushes or is loose on enter,exit,middle as far as in the corners.
 
what are the most common adjustments that you experience guy's make at the track and are most effective? i know tires are big but just wondering what are the main things you adjust to dial it in besides tires when a kart pushes or is loose on enter,exit,middle as far as in the corners.
If you kart is real good It's mostly all tires, or move 5lb of weight left to right or vise versa, however in general If it's off going in look to the front to change, If it's off on exit look to the rear to change, If it's off in center is the only time I'll look to wheel spacing's and there MINOR pretty much set them and leave them alone, Remember MOST exit issues are entry related, Also remember cross is a more fine tune adjustment.
 
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msquared

Member
Another thing, DO NOT do what everyone else is doing. Do what works for your kart and driver. Get a good baseline setup and decent tires. The kart should be neutral, neither slow nor really fast. Once you have a good reading and feel, work on the tires, work on the tires. Then start playing with the other settings on the kart but only after you understand what they are doing. If you change X then what affect will it have on Y and Z? And what changes will I need to make to compensate for the change in X on Y and Z? The bottom line is everything has to complement one another.

"You can play with cross, you can play with caster, you can play with camber, but if the tires are not right you end up playing with yourself." a quote from Fast5

For setting stagger, I used to bake my tires in the oven on 400 with no valve stem in. Then cool the tire fast with cool water. The wife hated that!

Another trick in storing tires is to use lanolin hand cleaner and wrap the tires in seran warp. The lanolin puts oils back into the tires where prep and age tends to pull those oils out. Another trick is to look at printing press blanket wash and blanket conditioner. A printing press blanket is rubber and it needs to last. Blanket wash and conditioner helps to maintain the blankets by adding natural oils back into the rubber blanket.

I do not like tire prep but it is a part of racing now and you may as well learn as much as you can about it. BE CAREFUL tire prep is a dangerous game, do it outside not in the trailer! Wear GLOVES!

Just remember, do your own thing.

Msquared
Understanding Chassis Theory and Dynamics
 
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