A GO TO thread for the new or newer dirt oval racers offering Info & Support

msquared

Member
No big deal. Nothing to be sorry for XXX. I submitted a post to get a response. My point was to make people realize that we all see things differently. Nothing more nothing less.

Like CG and VCG. Most see them as the same and they are not. You can change your CG but not your VGC. You can also change your VCG but not your CG. Your CG is the center of gravity on the horizontal plane. Your VCG is your CG but on the vertical plane. Adjusting them has very different effects or affects. It is just how you "see" it.

But you do have to admit, in motorsports you never see "Racing Motors", always "Racing Engines", but in oils you see "Motor Oil". So why do we call it Motorsports and not Enginesports"? No wonder English is so confusing. But it did help us win WWII, along with the Wind Talkers!

So XXX, don't be sorry. You did nothing wrong in anyway. You just helped me to prove a point. Thanks!

Msquared
 
Mike
Maybe you could give a few examples of when and how to adjust CG without affecting VCG and vise versa, and when if ever you adjust both at same time.
 
So when looking at the descriptions of when to use certain tire preps, how much should I pay attention to what the intended track surface for that prep is?

For example, lets say I have a set of tires punching 60, and I would like to get them down to ~45 and also add bite, and I'm using Track Tac products. I could wipe several different products, such as BTGP, SAA Grape, GK1 Blue or Black Sand. Lets say the track is relatively dry, but not a dustbowl. (Think of a dirt indoor track)

BTGP and SAA Grape will soften, but the descriptions say that they are for tracks with quite a bit of moisture. GK1 will soften, but maybe not soften enough. (I was only able to get ~7 points of softening last time) but the prep is intended for the track condition I will experience, although I will need more bite. Black Sand won't hardly soften at all. Also, I don't have a tire roller.

Would I be better off wiping Grape, even though the description is for tracks with moisture, or would I be better using the GK1 or Black Sand and dealing with a bit harder of a tire with the correct prep on them? I've heard of people using BTGP on indoor tracks, and that just doesn't seem right to me once the track dries out.
What class are you running? You are talking about shawnee correct? My understanding from the flat kart next to us was they can never get enough bite for that place, he said back in the day he would use creo and something else(i forget what he said). They were on Vegas, he won his heat walking away, didn't get to watch his feature. Think it was a mod flat class?
 

Cope1

Member
Off subject, Mike sorry I missed your call give me a call when it is convenient or I can call you, just didn't want to call and bother ya, thank you Ted.
 

Pops90

Member
What class are you running? You are talking about shawnee correct? My understanding from the flat kart next to us was they can never get enough bite for that place, he said back in the day he would use creo and something else(i forget what he said). They were on Vegas, he won his heat walking away, didn't get to watch his feature. Think it was a mod flat class?
No, this was actually in Tunica, MS a few weeks ago. Usually if I struggle with finding grip I'm not the only one, but I was definitely way off this time. Should have bought another set of yellow Vegas I guess.
 
No, this was actually in Tunica, MS a few weeks ago. Usually if I struggle with finding grip I'm not the only one, but I was definitely way off this time. Should have bought another set of yellow Vegas I guess.
My bad pops, I had replied to another guy who was at Shawnee. Never been to Tunica
 

95 shaw

Premium User
Changes to center of gravity include, but not limited to,
moving seat, either fore and aft, or left and right.
moving wheels in and out.
moving lead, or the engine.

Changes to VCG include,

Raising or lowering seat.
moving lead up or down.
moving engine up or down.
larger diameter tires.
raising or lowering axle location.
moving washers on front.

Sometimes a move also affects another adjustment, which can negate, or magnify moving weight.
That is why it is important to try to understand what is happening with your kart.
Do you absolutely need to know the nuances to be able to successfully race? No, but can remove some frustration when an adjustment does not do what you thought it would.
 
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Changes to center of gravity include, but not limited to,
moving seat, either fore and aft, or left and right.
moving wheels in and out.
moving lead, or the engine.

Changes to VCG include,

Raising or lowering seat.
moving lead up or down.
moving engine up or down.
larger diameter tires.
raising or lowering axle location.
moving washers on front.

Sometimes a move also affects another adjustment, which can negate, or magnify moving weight.
That is why it is important to try to understand what is happening with your kart.
Do you absolutely need to know the nuances to be able to successfully race? No, but can remove some frustration when an adjustment does not do what you thought it would.
So when would you make these adjustments VS normal fix we would see on a cheat sheet ?
 

MBMotorsports

New member
quick question, been discussing with a few of my fellow kart drivers/dads. The topic is 35# chains and sprockets vs. 219# chain and sprockets. any pros and cons to either of these? or are they similar? better gear ratios with one or the other aka closer gear ratios?
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
The 219 is a free'er rolling chain . Disadvantge is everyone runs 35 so if your the only one in your crew on it then , no borrowing of equipment .
Theres a formula for comparing gear ratio's .
If i remember correctly it is uses radius rather then tooth count .
 

95 shaw

Premium User
So when would you make these adjustments VS normal fix we would see on a cheat sheet ?
Moving the center of gravity will show directly on the scales. Which will also affect dynamic weight changes.

Moving only the vertical center of gravity does not show on the scales, but affects dynamic weight.
Raising vcg creates more weight transfer. Lowering, the opposite.
Thinking about where the weight goes at places around the track should be a consideration when moving either.

Hint: More grip, more transfer, regardless of vcg.

Lots of things to think about. Sorry, no shortcuts.

Add:
How many of the 'cheat sheet' fixes are, in fact, a change in cg. vcg?
 
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95 shaw

Premium User
The 219 is a free'er rolling chain . Disadvantge is everyone runs 35 so if your the only one in your crew on it then , no borrowing of equipment .
Theres a formula for comparing gear ratio's .
If i remember correctly it is uses radius rather then tooth count .
Tell me a story?
lol
 
Moving the center of gravity will show directly on the scales. Which will also affect dynamic weight changes.

Moving only the vertical center of gravity does not show on the scales, but affects dynamic weight.
Raising vcg creates more weight transfer. Lowering, the opposite.
Thinking about where the weight goes at places around the track should be a consideration when moving either.

Hint: More grip, more transfer, regardless of vcg.

Lots of things to think about. Sorry, no shortcuts.

Add:
How many of the 'cheat sheet' fixes are, in fact, a change in cg. vcg?
Not at all what I was asking, was not looking for any definitions, was looking for if kart is doing this or that change CG or VCG vs more normal adjustment.
 
Not at all what I was asking, was not looking for any definitions, was looking for if kart is doing this or that change CG or VCG vs more normal adjustment.
Like if my kart is constantly tight coming off the corner, can I change the VCG to help it? I would think after typing that out that the VCG has more bearing on entrance and middle than exit.
 
An older thread was just brought back to light it's titled left side percentages and cross relations under the chassis set up forum, EVERYONE should take xtra time and read through that thread and make up there own cheat sheet based on it's content.
 
An older thread was just brought back to light it's titled left side percentages and cross relations under the chassis set up forum, EVERYONE should take xtra time and read through that thread and make up there own cheat sheet based on it's content.
Back to the top so this post is close to the thread I refer to, just SKIP Al's B.S.
 
You see post asking how can you read the track better on knowing how much to prep.
Here is a tip, keep an eye on lap times of all the lower HP classes and plate classes the closer those lap times are to the Sr clones, or Sr animals, or jr 1 is just as fast as jr 3, tells you you'll still be prepping. The more you see those lap times separate and are more normal apart, the less and less aggressive you will prep.
 

paulkish

Premium User
interesting. I'll never forget going to an indoor race down south to help a friend racing UAS stuff.

rookie, ... was the fastest thing in the building
 
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