But much easier to detect in methanol
Attention Bill/AKRA and Dyno Don/Tech Inspector/BSP Fuel tests.
- Thread starter Judesdad17
- Start date
But much easier to detect in methanol
XXX#40
2A supporter
A cheater doesnt stop because we changed fuels
I ran a race track for many years, and because we used methanol did not curb cheating, plain and simple
DynoDon
Moderator
I've been testing gasoline with my hydrometer. ( hydrometers, plural ) I just started it about 3 weeks ago and I haven't had a chance to get back at it. I have been adding different amounts of alcohol to the local gas station here to see if there is a difference in specific gravity. I trying to create my own temperature chart. Next I am going to the different stations and pull some from them. I know I know, it won't work but I still want to see for myself thank you.
sCREamnClones
New member
Here-Here....."Dover for President 2016" (if not sooner)!
Dover Power
Member
I must ask?
Why won't a pump around work.. We've done it for nearly 30 years in the south and no one was fighting over the results??
Suck the tank dry and then move forward 4 ft and refill.. Who in their right mines will use their 40 a gallon fuel in that situation.. Thats right $40 gal
Methanol.. well we have dealt with it for how many years now... Its a simple water test to find a possible additive (cloudy fuel) BUT it needs to always be backed up with a hydrameter test to truely DQ someone...
Why make things complicated and expensive if you don't have too..
Why won't a pump around work.. We've done it for nearly 30 years in the south and no one was fighting over the results??
Suck the tank dry and then move forward 4 ft and refill.. Who in their right mines will use their 40 a gallon fuel in that situation.. Thats right $40 gal
Methanol.. well we have dealt with it for how many years now... Its a simple water test to find a possible additive (cloudy fuel) BUT it needs to always be backed up with a hydrameter test to truely DQ someone...
Why make things complicated and expensive if you don't have too..
sCREamnClones
New member
I've talked too several track operators and, for the most part, they just shrug the 'problem' off and say that they don't want the 'responibility'! (Liability, Insurance and extra hassle) Can't reality blame them there!
A pump around will work, problem is tracks won't use it. Too much time lost getting karts to the grid and have to pay extra personnel to run it. Right now they start calling a class to the grid 20 minutes early and they still make 5 laps waiting on slow joe to get on the track. God forbid you start a race without him even if you called his class for an hour. If you ran a pump around you better start calling classes 2 hours early and be prepared to wait 30 minutes on all the karts who show up at the last second to get fuel.
DynoDon
Moderator
Simple fix to that problem. Once the last kart is fueled the line up on the track is started. Once the line up is in order there is a two lap sign given. Anyone who enters the track after the lineup is in place during the two lap sign, they go to the rear. Any kart that doesn't make the rear of the field before the green flag drops doesn't race that event.
XXX#40
2A supporter
We done that at Clay City, and to our surprise, racers were showing up when they were called.
Why should we make all the racers suffer because 1 or 2 think they are better than everyone else.
sCREamnClones
New member
"I like that question"
First there can be a wide variance in jetting between gas variations so to do a back to back test between ethGas and non ethgas without retuning is useless info.
Second Gas is very EASY to cheatup and make HP in the can. Also you cannot "TEST " for octane rating at the track.
Third Gas is very exposive in a pump around situtation where a NON explosive rated pump system is used. Also illegal in most juridictions.
Fourth Jerry D has the right Idea. Methonal is the best fuel to use in this situation. It has been time tested to be the "best" fuel for kart racing.
In all situations you still NEED to drain and flush the fuel at the end of the race day to protect the carb from corrosion and gumming up from the gas ,ethanol, additives,etc. Some race gas,s are far worse on the carb than Methanol.
Methanol is also Manufactored to the same spec no matter where you buy it, unlike gas which could be any one of hundreds of blends plus race blends to boot.
Just a thought, (;-) TP
Second Gas is very EASY to cheatup and make HP in the can. Also you cannot "TEST " for octane rating at the track.
Third Gas is very exposive in a pump around situtation where a NON explosive rated pump system is used. Also illegal in most juridictions.
Fourth Jerry D has the right Idea. Methonal is the best fuel to use in this situation. It has been time tested to be the "best" fuel for kart racing.
In all situations you still NEED to drain and flush the fuel at the end of the race day to protect the carb from corrosion and gumming up from the gas ,ethanol, additives,etc. Some race gas,s are far worse on the carb than Methanol.
Methanol is also Manufactored to the same spec no matter where you buy it, unlike gas which could be any one of hundreds of blends plus race blends to boot.
Just a thought, (;-) TP
DynoDon
Moderator
As long as those voices are talking in your head , be happy. It is when they stop talking in my head that I wonder just what the heck they are planning to say next.!!!!
I think that depends on what your question is to begin with. In my case, the gas station I use has 91 non oxy and 87 regular available. What I wanted to know without going too far down the rabbit hole was, is there a difference, without making significant changes. The answer was physically noticeable, conclusive, and verified two drivers with back to back tests on same track same day same air density. I don't think I'd call it useless at all. Maybe the 91 would be quicker with more advance, but thats not really the point..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oljzl6qillitvgn/87V91.jpg
With a stock clone? I can't think of anything that would give a boost AND not smell "funny"
Why would you want to test for octane rating, I dont think thats what anybody is even talking about here.?
I think its a great way to alienate 70% of drivers running clones. Want to force them to 206, that's a good way to go. Just becuase it's the simplest to test for cheating, doesnt make it the best fuel for karting my a long shot, especially in a low performance motor like a clone.
Ok, I'll bite, can you give an example of a race gas worth using in a clone that is more corrosive or damaging to the internals than meth?
Not true. Don't take my word for it, take a look at VP's website, different blends and compositions, if you want them.
One thing you are right about, is if it was required that clones went to methanol then that would be the end of karting , even through the cost of clone engines have sky rocketed they are not at the cost of animals and flatheads and don't require as many rebuilds as alky engines do.
If you really want to simplify things on fuel and stay with gas, then require all clone engines to run 100 octane aviation fuel and use a jet that will run best on it. Aviation fuel is one of the tightest controlled fuels there are and have a specific reading on Digatrons fuel tester on both dc1 and dc2 tests, anything you do to DC1 to make it fall within that reading will definitely change the DC 2 readings. Aviation 100 octane fuel also has a distinct color.
Pump arounds have been fooled for years, ask the drivers in the staging area, its just been accepted not to stir the pot at these races.
If you really want to simplify things on fuel and stay with gas, then require all clone engines to run 100 octane aviation fuel and use a jet that will run best on it. Aviation fuel is one of the tightest controlled fuels there are and have a specific reading on Digatrons fuel tester on both dc1 and dc2 tests, anything you do to DC1 to make it fall within that reading will definitely change the DC 2 readings. Aviation 100 octane fuel also has a distinct color.
Pump arounds have been fooled for years, ask the drivers in the staging area, its just been accepted not to stir the pot at these races.
I think the idea of using a fuel like 100LL and "building the class around it" is a very good one for the reasons you pointed out. At least then, in a bind you could still use pump to get going. But doesn't availability for joe karter vary it vary from state to state? I think in some states you need to have a tail reg to get any.