O'Reilly National Indoor Kart Championships UAS

I wasn't implying that any profit was being made. I don't doubt for a second that a lot more time goes into getting something like this out than the returns usually justify. Probably need to mind my own business anyway! Factually speaking I don't know enough about the UAS to comment in an educated and well informed way.

Hoppy
 
Steve,
Hate? LOL. I don't hate anyone. Hate is a disease that minimizes the perspective of the weak minded. Whatever. You can believe whatever you want. Read my posts, here, right now. That's what I'm saying. I can't change the mind of a person that wants to believe only what they want to believe. I was involved with the UAS, dating back to 03. I have seen the whole evolution from when it was a PA series only. Things have changed a lot since I started seeing results in the back of mid 90s Buller catalogs.

Tim,
The post in this thread did not say what you claim. I have said from day one that I don't care if Mark makes money and I never claimed that he made anything from it, given the costs incurred. I only took issue when someone would come on here and state, "everything goes to the racer". That isn't true. More than 12% never see's the racer with regards to pay.

Another position is that for the most part, 1/4 point races require membership. If a series has 6 races and then 2 1/4 point races, that means that a full 25% available UAS races cause a non member to be exempt! 1/4 of the races can't be raced by someone not willing to contribute to a small minority of racers. That's the complaint I hear! That's why so many that have raced in this area that know the history of the UAS, race in different events. This mentality costs us racers.

What you don't want to seem to hear is that some racers don't like the idea of paying any money in the form of membership just so it can be redistributed to a very small minority of racers. That is exactly what the GN program does. I don't have the problem.....racers not willing to do a membership do.

Yes, I have taken issue with the way Mark has handled several things over the years. SO WHAT....WHO CARES? That's just my opinion. I can't let that stuff ruin the UAS for me. He has totally disregarded the rules and vote of administrators in the past so that he could follow his agenda. That has happened more than once. (Bringing this up, doesn't mean I hate him, Steve. It means I remember and that's all it means.)

I honestly don't see the problem in looking at how we could include more people in the UAS.... from reading your posts, you don't like the idea of attempting to figure out how to include more. This isn't a case of, build it and they will come. We have lost membership/GN points participation, despite growth in the number of series, every year since the current structure was put in place.

All I was suggesting was coming up with a way to count all UAS participants so that the overall group can get a feel for the actual growth and participation of the UAS....

Some of you guys are so opposed to me existing on this site, creating a bump in the road for your agendas, you want to take everything I say as a personal attack. That's not my idea of rational.....hey, who really cares?

You can have at it. This is just a waste of energy. You have no intentions of participating in a positive manner. Your blasts on the Ohio UAS thread is evidence of that.

This is not productive. It has become the normal back and forth BS that makes us appear childish.
Mike
 
MikeGrady said:
Steve,
Whatever. You can believe whatever you want. Read my posts, here, right now. That's what I'm saying. I can't change the mind of a person that wants to believe only what they want to believe. I was involved with the UAS, dating back to 03. I have seen the whole evolution from when it was a PA series only. Things have changed a lot since I started seeing results in the back of mid 90s Buller catalogs.

Tim,
The post in this thread did not say what you claim. I have said from day one that I don't care if Mark makes money and I never claimed that he made anything from it, given the costs incurred. I only took issue when someone would come on here and state, "everything goes to the racer". That isn't true. More than 12% never see's the racer with regards to pay.

What you don't want to seem to hear is that some racers don't like the idea of paying any money in the form of membership just so it can be redistributed to a very small minority of racers. That is exactly what the GN program does. I don't have the problem.....racers not willing to do a membership do.

Yes, I have taken issue with the way Mark has handled several things over the years. SO WHAT....WHO CARES? That's just my opinion. I can't let that stuff ruin the UAS for me.

I honestly don't see the problem in looking at how we could include more people in the UAS.... from reading your posts, you don't like the idea of attempting to figure out how to include more. This isn't a case of, build it and they will come. We have lost membership/GN points participation, despite growth in the number of series, every year since the current structure was put in place.

All I was suggesting was coming up with a way to count all UAS participants so that the overall group can get a feel for the actual growth and participation of the UAS....

Some of you guys are so opposed to me existing on this site, creating a bump in the road for your agendas, you want to take everything I say as a personal attack. That's not my idea of rational.....hey, who really cares?

You can have at it. This is just a waste of energy. You have no intentions of participating in a positive manner. Your blasts on the Ohio UAS thread is evidence of that.

This is not productive. It has become the normal back and forth BS that makes us appear childish.
Mike
Click to expand...

Your saying that the specific people who pay into the National program don't want that money spent on that specific program they spent the money to be part of and intended the money for.

That only makes sense to you.

The people who don't want to be members don't want to race for a National Championship now do they.

Yet you have no problem with the ORelly event charging 75.00 entry and then the money being awarded to the minority of front runners. Believe what you want Mike your the only one in the entire country that's complaining year after year after year. This entire thread was a Positive UAS thread and you brought the negative UAS condemnation and rewrite of positive turnouts into a negative UAS forcast.

Your pointing your finger at us and your the one that delusional.
 
Taft Racing said:
Your saying that the specific people who pay into the National program don't want that money spent on that specific program they spent the money to be part of and intended the money for.

That only makes sense to you.

The people who don't want to be members don't want to race for a National Championship now do they.

Yet you have no problem with the ORelly event charging 75.00 entry and then the money being awarded to the minority of front runners. Believe what you want Mike your the only one in the entire country that's complaining year after year after year. This entire thread was a Positive UAS thread and you brought the negative UAS condemnation and rewrite of positive turnouts into a negative UAS forcast.

Your pointing your finger at us and your the one that delusional.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not saying that.....how would that make sense? What i'm saying is that one of the reasons I hear from people unwilling to participate in the membership, state that they don't like the idea of their money being used to help a very small minority of racers. They also state that they don't see the purpose in participating in a membership designed to feed the GN when they have no desire to travel to the GN.

What I was suggesting is that maybe looking at something different, for them, might encourage them to participate in some other form of membership.....or just acknowledging them in a national publication, internet based or paper, will give the UAS participants a real world idea of how many of us there are.... That's all. No expenditures, no changes to current programs. Just help to show what our real numbers are. That may help produce a better picture for sponsors for the GN program.

Mike
 
Look, here's "our" problem. We have some point brought up. People get on here, me included, and participate in a "discussion" and then "I hate people". "I have a master plan that includes changing everything". I'm not sure where that comes from. I thought I was being fairly clear..... People see this crap and they have no desire to get involved....so we've effectively run them off a forum as well. No one is allowed to present a different idea without someone spitting on them.

Why does it have to be that way? Why can't we be intelligent individuals that have ideas and express them without turning the forum upside down?

Is "not taking any crap from someone" so important to the one that we allow it to disrupt the flow of information and ideas? If me staying off this forum would help that, I would gladly do that. I have done that on other threads. The stuff still happens.

Tim, you are I are often at the core of it for some reason. So, how can we improve this situation? How can we be the bigger guys and make this a more inviting place for the masses? I'm open to ideas because "this" is not productive.

Mike
 
Easy Mike, I won't let the negativity go unchallenged, So I call you out when you do it. Too many people have worked way too long and hard to try and build a program here, Now more than ever I'm heavily invested in the UAS the unlimited racers and especially the guys who cannot afford the high dollar expenses to keep up. Now I understand your thought process and the way you type your comments may have 2 completely different meanings. I'm clearly not the only one who read's your intent as being negative.

I know it looks like we hate each other and that's not true not even close. I believe you want for the most part a bigger better UAS. The last part of your previous post I can jump right on board with you. I think that's got to be one of the first insights into your actual intent I've ever read.


What I was suggesting is that maybe looking at something different, for them, might encourage them to participate in some other form of membership.....or just acknowledging them in a national publication, internet based or paper, will give the UAS participants a real world idea of how many of us there are.... That's all. No expenditures, no changes to current programs. Just help to show what our real numbers are. That may help produce a better picture for sponsors for the GN program.

Here's the first thing Mike, If from now on you'll stop looking for mandates to change current working systems. and lets focus on doing exactly what you just stated, Lets develop a UAS over view or chronicle of some type.

We have and we want more UAS series across the country. We need reasons for area's void of UAS series to want to become one.

Right now we have a UAS National Championship and National a Championship membership system. The membership fund is intended to be used for GN and UAS Championship awards and adminstration of that system. Let's leave that system alone for now OK. Right now it's what has proven to grow the UAS far and away better than any other system.

So Like your suggesting some sort of accounting of the over all UAS participation. Too Me the guys who pay to race for a Championship should not have their money looking after those who don't care or don't want any part of the Nationals.

I believe the first year accounting the entire UAS participation was the single fire that light this flame, People saw their names listed, their accomplishments results and the UAS Championship took off huge.

This is why HotDog was so successful in Florida It's why the DogPound was so popular it's why so many people came to Florida to race with the pound. It's all about having people belong to some thing bigger better and acknowledging their efforts. People want to see they matter, people want to know some one new they were there.

It's why I try and carry on his tradition of the post race write up, tell the story of the day include pictures include the days layout temp happenings peoples efforts the why's the who's. People enjoy the race told in print. I think as much or more than the video.

This is why I believe the MX engine will bring new faces to Unlimited Karting, They have name recognition they have dependable race engineered HP big time, and the general public knows nothing of what we do how we doit or what a unbelievable spectacale a UAS open modified race is like, But they know what a Honda is and they know they love racing. If we can catch the eye of the general public we'll grow.

Sponsors don't want to help us unless we can show them we can use our sport to sell more of their product. bottom line. Were going to have to build a spectacle worthy of gaining their interest in us so they can use us to attract customers to them. we have to do the grunt work our selfs, no one is going to come along and make it happen. This is grass roots we have along way too go.

I'm not waiting around, my efforts are crude and unfinanced and they are what they are. My goals are set. I know what my agenda is and I'm just doing it. I'll put some 450 karts together when i can I'll park them at the mall at the local dealerships and I intend to park a display at a National Motocross event, take a add out in a National motocross Magazine. I have to stay home make my product better and faster and more unbreakable. But it's going to happen.

I'm open to better Idea's I'll help anyone I can in any way i can. fire away Mike I'll help you in any way I can I'd much rather work with you than bicker away on Bob's
 
Well, that's great because everyone is sick of the bickering....me included. All I want is for there to be a way to document ALL current UAS racers.....to help drive some enthusiasm....not supplant the GN. I have no idea where you felt that was on my agenda. I made it clear I have no desire to do that....

That's what the Indoor National race provided the racers....a chance to compete in a big show without any ties. That is exactly what we need to continue to have because that will drive the GN....not compete against it. Enthusiasm is driven by participation and participation drives enthusiasm. We just need to show it off! Why don't we show it off? Isn't that what the UAS should be about, promoting ALL UAS racing? The AMA doesn't just publicize the Pro series. They publicize everything! I think 70 different guys tried to make it into an AMA Supercross 450 race. Yet, the AMA has over 100 thousand members.

We aren't going to get thousands of members but what's wrong with showing off 400? That's what I've been talking about....but talk is cheap.

Mike
 
Mike,

Please clarify, do you want to do away with the membership? You mentioned "showing off 400", do you mean 400 members or 400 participants? Just explain for my benefit and likely the benefit of other readers. One of the perks of being a UAS member is getting your name on the points list, do you want to take that perk away? This might make the $40 membership fee even less attractive to the average driver.
 
AMA came about to orginize and defend motorcycle riders when they were being treated as the red headed step child by government, different apple there Mike, Motorcycles are a form of transpertation Kart's are not. we don't and won't have millions to draw from, we can draw from the MX racing motorcycle racer, those are in the 1000's not millions. I have no problem if you think you can sell a membership to the average guy just to be a member so he get's his name on a ledger, But I think that's right back to your position all you get is a card. Now if you want to work 24/7 to account for all UAS participants for free, free membership and do the grunt work of accounting for all that have at it. AMA sold membership with the sales pitch were stronger with numbers we can go to the government ad change laws with membership numbers. What's your sales pitch on a general membership.

A sponsor wont help us cause we can say hey we have a 1000 members, They will help us if we can say Hey were taking 50 open modified karts to the California State fair, we can draw attention and sell more of your product for you with our show. come help us help you.
 
One final thought. With the passion that both Tim and Mike share for "Unlimited" racing if they can ever get on the same page they could move mountains. Find some common ground and work from there. Good "discussion" going on here.

Hoppy
 
Road Dog said:
Mike,

Please clarify, do you want to do away with the membership? You mentioned "showing off 400", do you mean 400 members or 400 participants? Just explain for my benefit and likely the benefit of other readers. One of the perks of being a UAS member is getting your name on the points list, do you want to take that perk away? This might make the $40 membership fee even less attractive to the average driver.
Click to expand...

Getting rid of the membership? No, that serves no purpose! I'm talking about the UAS acknowledging the people that participate across the board. They won't be in the points. It's about showing off what we should be focusing on.....our diversity in racers across the country. "Look how far the arm of UAS based racing reaches."

It is obvious I have confused some people. Leave the GN and all the stuff alone. Forget about changing it. I'm not suggesting for one second that we do that.

Many people.....most people don't really care about the road to the GN. That should be obvious because they aren't members. We should be focusing some efforts into these people. These are the racers that drive the enthusiasm to race. That's all I'm saying. It's not about money. People will spend the money IF they want to. The Indoor nationals proved that! That's what that race should have taught us. That same enthusiasm provides more sales to the Seays, the Tafts, the Birkys, the Phantoms, the Bullers, the Ultramaxes, the Bergfelts, the TS Racings, the Burris....anyone interested in the business that sells the stuff we use. That's what drives outside participation (sponsorship) to the UAS.

Who do you think they want to talk to, 115 racers or 400 or 900 or whatever there is.... Who knows how many are out there? Does anyone even have an estimate?

Right now, you might as well just call the membership a GN license. That's all it addresses. I'm talking about an opportunity to expand the membership.....DOWN THE ROAD. It isn't going to happen anytime soon. That will have to be felt out as time goes on. The point right now is to figure out who races UAS based events, figure out the total numbers and possibly use that to help build additional enthusiasm for the future. That, I believe, will have a positive effect on everything, including the GN numbers and memberships. I honestly don't see what it could hurt. Look at the past history of GN point participants. Something needs a kick start.

Mike
 
Hi Guys Thanks for the Congrads,
It was A Great Turn out for sure. I don't have the answers to any of this, But I know Chris Seay helped bring more Karts to the Show.

I think This Thanksgiving Race UAS Kart count was High because It was a Long weekend for Many Racers . And this Time of the Year, Theirs not many tracks racing. Next Year I'm going to Hit as Many UAS races when I can.
I work two weekends a Month so I'll try and Find races I can attend if Possible.


I built this Kart to run UAS as much as possible with my schedule permitting. There is alot of people Interested in UAS and Its Growing.
I think the Rules Are perfect for the UAS class.. Just My thoughts.

Hope everyone in this area Survives this ICE storm that's coming !

Hope to see everyone at the Biggest Indoor show in the Country Next year !!

J Langley
 
In my opinion everything that Mr Grady wants already exists ,you currently have the UAS that has a set of rules that those who want to qualify for the GN and a points system to see how each area compares by following a strict set of rules. Then we have offshoots who use the UAS basic rules for motors and let most everything else go (such as chassis mods,braking systems, tires,ages and other things that the UAS rules address), tracks and events like being held at Batesville, Duquoin Il and other events not running under any UAS rules are available, they are called open or outlaw classes, some of these will not allow UAS approved karts to run at there track events because of their own private rules that seem crazy. Such as you can run any single size motor even a twin cyclinder over 500 cc's but at the same time cannot run dual engines with total of less than 400cc's.
 
I don't see a down side to that but how are you going to count them. Just numerically with a total number each race or at the end of the month or year, or should you keep track of them by name, address, and kart number as Jeff does with the members? And last, who will do it or is responsible for this count?
 
I myself think there should be just a little more weight put on the regional races and a small bonus put on traveling out of region.

Just my thoughts. If you want to be the NATIONAL CHAMP you have to race nationally or at least travel some
 
I'm with Mike Grady on his concept. I'm confused on how to apply the idea but I think we would ALL like to know how many UAS racers are out there and where they are. Perhaps a UAS census should be done every 5 years? Gather data such as driver's name, owner's name, kart model, engine, city, state, age (via date of birth but only age published), let them plug a sponsor or two, and what region(s) they participate in. I am NOT volunteering myself, but I would consider compiling it. I will NOT be interested in seeking the information, just compiling what comes in. The incentive for participating would be having your listing published on the national list (in American Muscle Kart and on the appropriate forums). Drivers could "opt out" of being listed publicly, or having certain info displayed, just so the national office could still know who is out there for marketing and other purposes. The basic and guaranteed incentive for participating would be having your listing published on the national list (in American Muscle Kart and on the appropriate forums). But to "entice" participation there should be one or more random drawings among the listed drivers for a big prize or several big prizes. Tires, gift certificates, free UAS membership, free AMK subscription, cash, nothing huge, but something to make a racer say "hey, I better get my name in there".

How about that, Mike and others?

And Stephen, we take threads off the original topic all the time, deal with it!
 
The 07 UAS listed the entire UAS participation and ranked them based off their local performance. The ranking was used as a National points Championship. Now rather than ranking them as a National contender the same system could be used to rank them on a members system, most firsts seconds thirds ect. The only way to gather this info is for doing what I did and that was to look at the UAS series call or look up the results of each series race and compile the results. It was not easy then it would be twice as hard now. Jeff's system of having the administrators send in the results is hard enough to stay on top of. So It takes some effort by some one to do the work. By the way the 07 results did spur growth, but that was more because of the National ranking than the fact they were just merely counted.

Steve were working on getting Divisional's added to the National format, That'll give you some traveling added into the format. It takes time and people have to work together to build this program.
 
Jeff,
I didn't want to be too specific because it is often taken as me trying to shove something down everyone's throat. I was just thinking a simple list and maybe the region they race in.....that's it. that differentiates them from a GN member.

I really like your idea. Where that money comes from is a question though. I totally understand not wanting to get involved with that process of logging people. If it were agreed to, I would do that. My ideas are very simplified though. The point is to just record numbers.....not points or anything like that. This wouldn't be about competition. It's about acknowledging participation only.

That doesn't mean it doesn't turn into something. I have no idea or plans of that. I just want to know how many of us there are. I believe knowing could be a boost to enthusiasm.

Mike
 
Well, I could log it in, but I would not be up for tracking down everyone to get their info. Each administrator might just need to keep a log (on a template I could send them) of who shows up at their races. And I don't want to go as deep as how many times these people are showing up, if it's once a year or every race, they all get counted.

I think it's helpful to have more than a name and region. Location, kart, engine, age, and sponsor all have their benefits. Plus the driver could get their sponsor more exposure. Notice Florida has been known for its aging drivers (not a dig) that are transitioning out of the seat (but are still fast) and therefore Tim Taft created an owner's championship. Obviously Tim knew everybody down there but imagine if you didn't know how old these people were all over the country, you might never know about the potential for an owner's championship to add excitement. That's just an example of how knowing more about the racers might lead to better ideas/decisions. Additionally the manufacturers get more recognition from seing their kart name and the same with the engines.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top