XXX#40
2A supporter
and you'll SEE heat damage, no temp needed
Tire temp readings
- Thread starter payneracing714
- Start date
jaymancds
Member
Right, but why not have a quantitative data resource telling you when that damage begins, and how bad, etc.
Also, you never answered me, if 80% of the RF tire never touches the ground, why my tire wear across more than just the inside 1.5"?
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
If that's the case, then what better way is there to find out if we're doing a good job than in taking the tire temps. What easyer or more accurate way is there?
XXX#40
2A supporter
air too low, spring rate /sidewall too soft, too little negative camber.
fuzzing, feathering, blistering is apparent immediately
XXX#40
2A supporter
because Al we race on dirt.
After a race the time varies that you can even get to the tire to take a temp ie cool down lap, line across the scales moves slower, etc....
Faulty, inconsistent info does no one any good, and again our tires show quickly when you are over heating it.
The only temp I closely monitor is my engine temps.
Mac_49
Member
XXX#40
2A supporter
bet 2 of them didnt even get what information watching engine temps through a run give you
I'm going to restate what I've said previously. Tire Temps are important, measuring the temp isn't. Reading the tire tells all. If the tire tells you it got too hot, adjust accordingly. Actively reading tire Temps will give you information, but you can get that same info from reading the tire(and saves you $500 on the mychron kit).
Just curious though, how warm can tires get on dirt? On asphalt?
Just curious though, how warm can tires get on dirt? On asphalt?
BrendanFitz#73
Mohawk Dawg
Taking tire temps on staggered tires on an asymetrical setup wont tell you anything as each tire will be worked differentely. Like jamie said you can take one quick look at a tire and tell when its overheating. Taking notes on what the tires look like after a run would tell volumes more than what the temp would tell you. Translate how the tires look to how the kart felt during the run would help more than looking at the temp of the tire as there are too many variables and the ever changing world of dirt is the biggest one.
If it helped everyone would be doing it but I dont see anybody walking around a kart track with an infrared heat gun. The guys that know what they are doing can tell how hard the tire is working with their hands...
If it helped everyone would be doing it but I dont see anybody walking around a kart track with an infrared heat gun. The guys that know what they are doing can tell how hard the tire is working with their hands...
jaymancds
Member
I work in data collection/interpretation, so forgive me if I dive too deeply into how data and statistics work. I am at a given track, with a given condition, every cool down lap at this given track is the same length as the track length doesnt change. Assuming I drive the cool down lap consistently, the time variable from waiting on the scales could be measured and placed within a standard deviation of how long the typical wait is at the scales. If tire temps are checked immediately after the scales in the same repeatable manner, your data will stay consistent.
This means that I could build a reasonable standard deviation of tire temps with a certain confidence interval, somewhere in the 60 to 70% range is where most professional data usage targets are aimed. Once this is developed I could then develop a model that would give me a ball park of what tire, what prep, air pressure, etc for a given track situation. This will not always be perfect as we all know, but it could point to a tighter selection than what I had without my data.
Sjona, if you measured tire temps you could answer that question lol.
Again, it may not be necessarily be to determine if the setup is correct on a single race. However, if you had a season or two worth of temps logged by which tire and track condition you could use that data vs. your current data to help evaluate tire performance. Example: You have two years of data on a given track. You go out for your 8 lap heat race, youre off a little and you know its a tire selection issue. Once you have your current day temps, you can compare that to historical data and perhaps have a better way to decide what to do with the tires, or what change to make. In this case your heat race is short enough that the tire may not be to the point of being destroyed, but if you notice the tire is hotter than what your data says it should be to be good for the feature, you can make a change in how you prep for the feature. Again this is all assuming you only have a set or two of tires to use. You also may be able to notice that a tire was close to being hurt.
In my opinion, if you had that as a tool, you could spot potential issues earlier. Such as, your right rear is 20 degrees hotter than what your data says it should be, instead of hurting that tire by running it for the feature, you may be able to bolt on another harder right rear for the feature and not hurt either set.
Geez I sound a lot like Al lol
XXX#40
2A supporter
you do you then, but dirt changes so much from minute to minute, the track you raced on this weekend will be different next week, never mind next year, you gather current info the night of the race and make adjustments then.
But you do what you want, how you want......but come back next year and tell us your findings.
Ive been on this site for 22 years, ive saw it all almost
flattop1
Dawg 89
I gotta side with jammie on this one .
The tire temp at race condition might tell more then after the scales .
A 10 inch tire should cool more then a 6 inch tire .
Then just because the RR is 20* hotter you put on a harder tire , compare that too lap times . It might be saving the tire at the expense of winning the race .
Now your not even bringing prep into it the harder tire surely has less prep .
We raced with someone who took temps religiously , he doesn't do it anymore .
And lastly you do Sound like Al.
The tire temp at race condition might tell more then after the scales .
A 10 inch tire should cool more then a 6 inch tire .
Then just because the RR is 20* hotter you put on a harder tire , compare that too lap times . It might be saving the tire at the expense of winning the race .
Now your not even bringing prep into it the harder tire surely has less prep .
We raced with someone who took temps religiously , he doesn't do it anymore .
And lastly you do Sound like Al.
jaymancds
Member
Im not saying I track temps, I'm not saying I ever will, just making the argument that it COULD be beneficial at some level. I guess that would depend on the prep being used, if your hard set has a ton a bite, but isnt soft, etc etc. Its messy for sure.
Let the record show I try not to sound like Al lol
With all this said, IF we ran longer races, meaning 30 to 50 laps where some amount of tire savings could actually set you up at the end, I think this could be a more feasible idea, but I still think data is data. It can all be used somewhere. May not give you any advantage, but hey you know what your tire temps are so... cool.
XXX#40
2A supporter
We have raced at the highest level in karting, and even those guys dont take temps.
My son is the crew chief on a super latemodel(Family deal), they rarely take tire temps as well.
And yes when we first started karting many years ago, I bought the longacre 4 tire memory temp probe, and sold it a year later at a loss
flattop1
Dawg 89
Ok here's a "bad" bad data example . Two carpenters are working one is measuring one is doing the cutting .
Carpenter A hollers down cut one 6 tree an a half .
Carpenter B hollers back 63 an1/2 .
Yea hurry up .
...........carpenter A hollers back after receiving the board . I said 6foot tree and a half
Carpenter A hollers down cut one 6 tree an a half .
Carpenter B hollers back 63 an1/2 .
Yea hurry up .
...........carpenter A hollers back after receiving the board . I said 6foot tree and a half
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flattop1
Dawg 89
So coincidentally my wife received a temp gun yesterday .
Seeing as the tools are comparison oriented .
Her gun shows 30* different then mine .
I also have a tire temp probe that I use when pulling the trailer .
It's not showing any abnormalities in the temp of the tires on the trailer or the truck . There all typically within 10 * of one another when I pull in for fuel or rest stop . My plan was use temp too find out why it throws a tread almost every pull . As slowing down seems to aleviate the problem . The temp has never indicated a temp issue .
Seeing as the tools are comparison oriented .
Her gun shows 30* different then mine .
I also have a tire temp probe that I use when pulling the trailer .
It's not showing any abnormalities in the temp of the tires on the trailer or the truck . There all typically within 10 * of one another when I pull in for fuel or rest stop . My plan was use temp too find out why it throws a tread almost every pull . As slowing down seems to aleviate the problem . The temp has never indicated a temp issue .
paulkish
old fart
... 
A friends car after winning his heat race season opener at Port Royal.
He also won the feature but it was the first time out for me with my thermo camera and I didn't make it to the winners circle for pictures.
The next week I was lucky enough to be allowed to do the same with the winner of his heat race and feature at Attica and I did go get tire pictures in the winners circle. ...
Each time I was given full access in the pits to take any and all thermo pictures I wanted.
Sent or gave a cd to each and each showed interest in them and one crew chief said he was going to ask Goodyear about what the left rear showed. Important? Who knows but interesting for me for sure.
It was a great baseline experience for me for my first time out with it. I ended up looking at heat difference in mechanical things like himes, shocks, torsion bars and tube more then tires. I also at an All Star Show was able to take all cars from time trials while they were on the scales immediately after their 2 laps. I've lost the data but it was interesting and like patterns did show themselves per how well a car did in time trials. Though there were similarities between the fast and between the slow, without knowing exact setup just knowing what I figure was probably done, I couldn't relate a pattern to anything specific. So though interesting It taught me or showed me nothing exact.
The most interesting thing at Attica that day which was not the season opener where I was given free reign of the winners car, was I also too picture of heat patterns in the track in the turns. I will tell you for fact it did show in heat a line especially into the turns.
Again was that line just the line most of the cars took with fewer fast cars taking a different line? no
It just showed the line most cars took and by where it was located and also watching the race I think it showed weather most were on the left or right rear at that part of the track. It did help me understand tire loading at turn entry and beyond.
The most telling thing i've ever seen about how tires actually work in a turn is when I watch rookie tires on karts early on at Slippery Rock when the track is still wet. Watching I was able to learn how rear tires actually load left to right or right to left across the surface of rear tires while entering turn one. That folks is a REAL eye opener.
Bed time thanks for reading it was fun to write.
A friends car after winning his heat race season opener at Port Royal.
He also won the feature but it was the first time out for me with my thermo camera and I didn't make it to the winners circle for pictures.
The next week I was lucky enough to be allowed to do the same with the winner of his heat race and feature at Attica and I did go get tire pictures in the winners circle. ...
Each time I was given full access in the pits to take any and all thermo pictures I wanted.
Sent or gave a cd to each and each showed interest in them and one crew chief said he was going to ask Goodyear about what the left rear showed. Important? Who knows but interesting for me for sure.
It was a great baseline experience for me for my first time out with it. I ended up looking at heat difference in mechanical things like himes, shocks, torsion bars and tube more then tires. I also at an All Star Show was able to take all cars from time trials while they were on the scales immediately after their 2 laps. I've lost the data but it was interesting and like patterns did show themselves per how well a car did in time trials. Though there were similarities between the fast and between the slow, without knowing exact setup just knowing what I figure was probably done, I couldn't relate a pattern to anything specific. So though interesting It taught me or showed me nothing exact.
The most interesting thing at Attica that day which was not the season opener where I was given free reign of the winners car, was I also too picture of heat patterns in the track in the turns. I will tell you for fact it did show in heat a line especially into the turns.
Again was that line just the line most of the cars took with fewer fast cars taking a different line? no
It just showed the line most cars took and by where it was located and also watching the race I think it showed weather most were on the left or right rear at that part of the track. It did help me understand tire loading at turn entry and beyond.
The most telling thing i've ever seen about how tires actually work in a turn is when I watch rookie tires on karts early on at Slippery Rock when the track is still wet. Watching I was able to learn how rear tires actually load left to right or right to left across the surface of rear tires while entering turn one. That folks is a REAL eye opener.
Bed time thanks for reading it was fun to write.
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FlatheadsForever87
Member
I understand completely. Its you thats not getting it.
FlatheadsForever87
Member
Head temp right? I suppose u gonna say exhaust temp it worthless at tire temp.