Track Tac

why isn't bracket racing more popular in Karting?

7

71 chevy

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My track has brackets and I'm getting my Kart ready and I'll be one of two drivers lol.
it used to be the biggest class a few years ago.from what i was told, one could be competitive with an older chassis, there was no blue printing to spend money on and it was close racing.if your engine or driving was too slow for one bracket, you could drop down to the next bracket.

Additionally, its pretty much rwyb and no tech involved at end of day.

This to me sounds like an amazing way to keep racing affordable.i come from drag racing whereits very poplar and we know that rules based, heads up racing will cost all you've got and it still won't be enough.

Example, when 275 tire racing came out it was supposed to allow the tire to be the limiter so a less expensive package could compete.today if your x275 car didn't cost 200k forget about being competitive. You might as well just stay at home.

contrast that to a bracket car that you can build for Pennies.you can only go so fast so there is no point in throwing money at it.a 6.60 car can be built for 5k and the racing is just as intense as, or maybe even more intense than heads up.

Which brings me back to my question -why is it not so popular in Karting, and what can we do to bring brackets into the sport
 
If you can figure a way to keep people from sandbagging it could possibly work. On dirt its to easy to say "I must have just had my tires just right" after winning by a straight away over karts you timed close to in a heat race. There are just too many variables on dirt.
 
I have been thinking about a bracket race for about a year now. I was going to qualify everyone, and put them into 3 brackets, and pay $500 to win each bracket. Then I thought about the sand bagging.
I thought to my self.........we would end up with everyone in the lower bracket.

So I had the thought of paying $300 in the low bracket, $500 in the middle bracket, and $700 for the upper bracket. But you will still have sand bagging, cause winning $300, or $500 is better than winning nothing.

Then I got to thinking........What if I told them, If you run a lap time in the race that is more than 4 tenths faster than your qualifying lap, you get DQ'd.
But i'm not sure if that would be the right way either.

I love the idea of the bracket racing, but Like Racer47 said. How do you keep them from sand bagging?
 
I really enjoyed Bracket racing at the Enduro track in Roebling Road, Ga. Sadly it became less popular the more we raced there. I have no idea why.
 
We qualify for groups at our small local track. It's not "bracket racing" though. If you have the same people coming out pretty much every week, sandbagging can be stopped..it just takes some time. I love it for the reasons you listed. You can go as fast or slow as you want.

And I also know what you mean about the 275 class in drag racing. I was so hyped about that class and then before it got started good, it turned into having to have 75k in your motor setup to even be competitive. Ridiculous but you have to pay to play.
 
Most likely....that's an indication of how many people 'sandbag' and they realize(d) that they are NOT the 'best' bagger!
 
Because bracket “racing” is a ridiculously silly idea. It’s not racing; it’s handing out purple ribbons. I would never support an event of that nature and see it as a threat that would divide karting and expedite its decline. We should be fighting to keep it out of the sport.

If karting came down to brackets, I would rather go fishing.:eek:
 
I would have to agree that bracket racing on an oval would be more choreography and execution than an actual race. Even "Pinks- All Out" had their share of sandbagging.
 
A good model for this type of racing can be seen in the horse world, with Barrel Racing 1D, 2D, etc. But... I'd pay for heat wins and invert the feild for the feature
 
I like the concept, but there are too many variables. I know my motor makes more power I can feel on the butt dyno on a cool day compared to an 80* one. On a hot day the tires can get overheated and "go-out" before the end of the race where on a cold day they may take 2 laps to warm up but then I can push the kart all out for the duration of the race. In our area they change the pump gas formulation for winter.....another potential change in performance.
 
jack burroughs said:
I really enjoyed Bracket racing at the Enduro track in Roebling Road, Ga. Sadly it became less popular the more we raced there. I have no idea why.
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Jack, the reason is due to folks who "refused" to comprehend how simple and fun the format is, lobbied to abolish it. Sad too. It did not matter the age of the chassis, sprint or enduro, stock or modified engines, or even single or twin kart/engines, the driver's consistency was the main determining factor. The critics who rarely showed yet became the most vocal cannot understand its NOT all about racing a clock. It's about having fun with a class without cookie cutter rules and can be rewarded when you win. Kinda like he who has the most fun, WINS!
 
rkcarguy said:
I like the concept, but there are too many variables. I know my motor makes more power I can feel on the butt dyno on a cool day compared to an 80* one. On a hot day the tires can get overheated and "go-out" before the end of the race where on a cold day they may take 2 laps to warm up but then I can push the kart all out for the duration of the race. In our area they change the pump gas formulation for winter.....another potential change in performance.
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i think thats what makes it even more interesting. say you are running a fixed bracket. you could have a tightly dialled in package and boom the evening comes, atmosphere changes and now you (and everyone else is scrabling to dial in or out some performance to get back to the bracket. i like the idea because it allows any engine. big guys can buy more power. little guys can use les s power and save some money on the engine. every one will run harder tires that are more consistent and last longer(potential huge money saver)
 
racer47 said:
If you can figure a way to keep people from sandbagging it could possibly work. On dirt its to easy to say "I must have just had my tires just right" after winning by a straight away over karts you timed close to in a heat race. There are just too many variables on dirt.
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if you are running fixed brackets, then it should be easy. the way it works is you run in the bracket. if you go too fast at anytime, ie you break out, you start at the back of the next faster bracket, or at the back of whatever bracket you broke into.
that way you can hold a little to account for consistency issues but it wont help if you fall back because to catch back up youll have to break out. and you score no points and get put in the next category up.
 
#65 said:
Because bracket “racing” is a ridiculously silly idea. It’s not racing; it’s handing out purple ribbons. I would never support an event of that nature and see it as a threat that would divide karting and expedite its decline. We should be fighting to keep it out of the sport.

If karting came down to brackets, I would rather go fishing.:eek:
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how is it handing out purple ribbons when there is only one winner per bracket ?
how does it divide the sport when you can race any engine, any weight, any tire, in a bracket class?
how is it not racing when you are racing other people in your bracket who hopefully are running around the same times as you, and none of you can breakout or you lose all points
how would it expedite the decline of anything when one is able to actually afford to race??

sorry, but I dont think your sentiments were well thought out
 
To put it simply, there are far too many variables, the main one being that most want to win no matter what they are racing or doing. Bracket racing has its place in drag or car racing, but does not belong in oval kart racing, especially not with dirt since it is pretty inconsistent. Everyone should know their skill level and should have the sense to not try to race in a class where they know they don't belong. This is a big problem in kart racing, you will see a few beginners in a class full of experienced drivers, which almost always leads to more wrecks and torn up equipment that could have been avoided if there was a class for the beginners to race. I have seen it alot, new guys will get into kart racing and automatically want to get the most powerful engine they can legally run, then jump into that class, which seems to be AKRA clone classes around here, then they end up causing alot of wrecks and cautions because they aren't experienced enough to keep up with the ones who have been doing it for years. It results in alot of cautions, which puts more wear and tear on everyone's equipment and drags out a 10-15 lap race to 25 or more laps, which is unnecessary.

All it would take is for beginners to have a class to race in, or a class for each level of racer. Even then, you would still have a few who get into a class above their skill level, which completely kills the fun of it. I'm sure not everyone is out to win every race, but I'm also sure nobody likes to just lose either, nobody wants to be last.
 
There's a group in my area the NE Indiana Karting Association that runs at I think 4 back yard tracks one has a dirt road course I believe and 1 oval track at the motocross track north of Fort Wayne the only track I have been at to watch only. They have a $50 membership and run weekly no additional fees to race, now Dont quote me but there format is 2 kids class and 3 adult groups no weights no engine tech ,open tires seen alot of tires well past there prime for sure .
They qualify and split the adult competitors up in 3 groups run 2 heats and features for the fun of racing . The one night I went to watch there was 42 karts now I've been to several tracks this year paying decent money that didn't have that many racers on the grounds sad .
My point being there are a lot of racers out there who are not going to pay $25 and up entry fees along with all the entails weather its motor rules,tires ,prepping or whatever tracks need to offer and promote alternatives why would all those in this group opt to go to X race track knowing to get 4 people in and enter 1 class there looking at $70+ compared to $50 for the year .
Tracks need to be profitable , karts in the pits make that possible.

This is just an observation and does not apply to me but it sure seems it does to many out there...

https://www.facebook.com/northeastindianakartingassociation
 
Racing is a double edged sword. Everybody wants to win. This thinking lead to fracturing the classes. Cant win with the normal stock class, run the amateur class... cant win that try to win old folks class, cant win that, try to win the super heavy class, cant win that try to win the Green karts with plastic body who's number starts with 4 class...

Moving up or sideways is a way to change your competitiveness in a group, much easier than going to work and finding speed in the group you're running now. Be it Dirt racing and the chemical tire game or sprint, learning to drive and figure how to go faster, its hard work to figure it out. Nobody really wants to show up and their only hope to run second, third, or fifth. How do you get people to decide to put the work in to find speed instead of getting frustrated and moving on?

The concept of bracket racing is a good one. The implementation is more difficult. I know when trying instruct in the art of racing, there are many levels and plateaus drivers reach when getting up to speed. Especially when running a shifter kart. First step is terror and just barely saving your life every lap. Second step is less terror but inconsistent lap times. Say one out of 20 is decent. Then 10 out of 20 decent, Then 19 of 20 are good. THEN time to do it with other karts around. In a race. Then bigger races...

Perhaps instead of calling it bracket racing have races within races. Say on a sprint track you get some kind of award for Getting closer to the hot shoes. Can progress over a season. Start the season half second a lap off end 2 tenths off. Most improved. Levels of achievement and leveling up in rank like Kills in Call of Duty online play?

The Knee jerk reaction to a "bracket" format is the racer in me Hates it. But business wise, need more karts to keep entry fees in check and new competition rolling into the sport.
 
I say run what you brung.....everyone weigh 400 lbs. have a kart and engine ( yes both) claim rule of $2000. Lets race!!!
 
Back in the 1970s we ran classes that were based on times - similar to what you're calling "bracket" racing - and it worked pretty well. It allowed low budget and inexperienced teams to have more fun because they ended up racing other low budget or inexperienced teams instead of essentially just being field fillers to get stomped by the guys with big budgets and / or more experience. We also did it because this was back before the WKA / Briggs & Stratton alliance - instead of most classes being based off one motor there were dozens of WKA legal motors, and it was difficult to tech them all.

Sandbagging was possible but they had several procedures to discourage it:
1. The fastest class got the biggest payout. So if you sandbagged to try to get an "easy" win in a lower class you'd also get less money for it. The slowest classes ran for trophies only. We in the slow classes didn't mind that some of our entry money was going to somebody else's class - we were just running for fun, and it really wasn't a lot of money anyway.

2. They ran the classes from slowest to fastest. During each race (except for the fastest class) they timed the leader (or lead group if it pulled away from the rest). If you "broke out" you were black flagged and placed at the tail of the fastest class. That was quite a disadvantage, especially if you had sandbagged your way into one of the slowest classes. Note - you didn't just get moved up one class, you went in with the big boys.

3. The track officials knew how much the track would usually pick up, and gave each class a tolerance. So you could work on your kart and / or the track could pick up speed and still not cause a "break out"... if you were legit. Usually almost everybody picked up similar amounts of speed, which was no problem since relative competitiveness was most important.

4. After qualifying but before heat races started (and after the classes were posted) you had the option to ask to be moved up to a faster class. That was to cover situations when you had trouble during qualifying but knew you would fix it and "break out" of the slower class, and was usually used with track regulars. (You would be placed at the tail of that faster class.) You could not move down in class.

Kids had a separate set of classes from adults, and sometimes they'd have a separate beginner's class if enough people asked for one.

It wasn't a perfect system (is there such a thing?) but it helped keep the low budget and lower experience teams from getting frustrated and quitting. It also was more flexible for when people brought odd kart / motor combinations that don't fit well into today's motor + weight classification system.
 
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