Track Tac

With This Fuel & Oil Additive problem continuing to get more out of hand, Makes me Wonder Why ?

Very well said Renegade, It pretty well match's tests that I had run...I would almost bet that if the new instrument FT64 was used and DC2 tests were run those that passed DC1 range of 20 t0 30 counts would have not passed the DC2 readings, what's nice with the new FT64 probe and the DT64 instrument is it makes temp,dc1,dc2 and self testing of instrument all at the same time. I do have some other tech people making their own tests and evaluating the new instrument.
I would also like some karters to use the DT64 instrument on oil, in a comparison method it should pick up additives to it also , but I have not ran any of those tests myself, but we are trying to get a couple tech people to make some tests and store their results to look at and see how repetitive they are especially on DC2 readings.
 
An instrument to test oil would be a huge benefit to karting. How that could be accomplished is something for smarter people than me to figure out.
 
I Agree the fuel deal is not as much of an advantage as some think, however look at lap times in a big race it does not take much to make a huge difference plus that advantage is there reguardless of what tires are on, with that being said It's time to stop it the Health risk are just to great,
I can assure you were not letting this go we will be doing everything possible to make sure we know as much there is to know about all the chemicals plus how to test for them, then we will be letting EVERY track in Pa know about our findings, plus we will be leading the charge to try and get all Pa tracks on board to stick together and if any of us catches anyone and it's confirmed by 2 others that racers is BANNED from racing Pa period, that will clean it up quicker than any pump around.

As for the oil I also agree it's more out of hand than the fuel and a bigger advantage, we will be doing everything possible to detect the oil additives as well.
 
I as a TECH man at a couple tracks here in the lowcountry of South Carolina believe that conventional testing and the Digitron DT-64 will curb fuel cheating.We always use a spec station and named fuel almost always we have a few that grumble and dont pass tech but by race time they are on the money just like everybody else.We check all fuel after qualifying and the top 5 post race we also do fuel checks anytime before qualifying,I personally have tested the power mist,nitro and propylene dioxide using my DT-64 mixed with the spec fuel all were detected by the DT-64 as well as comparison to 93 octane versus 87 octane with and without ethanol.I highly reccomend this unit tracks or Techmen can call Cecil Grubb owner of GDAC he is the main rep for digitron he is located in Washinton Indiana his phone is 812-610-0023 and his username on bobs is CPTNIMO the units are 685.00 and if your local I will help you get an understanding of the tester and its operation Greg Paul Conway South Carolina
 
Ken I hope you plan on sharing results with all. A health hazard is a health hazard no matter the location. And I know plenty of folks down here with the "win at all cost" mentality.
 
Renegade said:
I have watched this discussion and some points are really on the mark but others are out there. First off, fuel, Are there gains to be had? of course there are but it's much less than you think. I took one engine and every fuel additive I could get my hands on including 1.4 dioxin. In any concentration that would pass the Digatron DT41 tester which wasn't much to show a 30 point variance. There was never more than a .05 to .10 hp gain. ( That's tenths of a HP in case your confused.) We then tried 7 different enhanced fuels, there were some interesting results. All but one made the same power as regular unleaded fuel. Some made a little more on top others a little more on bottom, but none made more than a .15hp more than plain ole unleaded fuel. To answer the first question, yes we tried different jets, no we never changed the timing. All these fuels also failed the Digatron tester, including the one that did make a .5hp difference, which by the way nearly blew the tester up it was so far off. So the results basically told us that any fuel or additive that could get passed the Digaton did not make any difference at all and even hurt HP sometimes. Despite those who swear otherwise yes 1.4 Dioxin is detectable in any amount that makes the slightest HP gain. So if you use it you are only trying to kill your competition and the spectators, literally. Hear is the real kicker, we had bigger gains from pure E85 and a mixture of 2/3 gas with 1/3 methanol made a bigger gain of X2 or more, than any additive or fuel besides pure methanol.

So fuel and fuel additives are a waste of time and money if you test properly. I am sure some will disagree but you will have to show me proof.

Now oil is a different animal all together and you don't have to build it real loose to see big gains. This is where huge gains are made mainly because everyone has been convinced that oil can't be tested in a gas engine. It's total BS, oil can be tested. We put fresh Power Plus oil in a engine and made 5 dyno pulls, then added 2 ounces of gas to the oil and made 5 more pulls. Then heated the oil to 300 degrees and it did not burn, it did not even flash. So don't even waste your time trying to convince me you can't burn oil in a clone, I know better. If your oil burns it wasn't legal to start with and you probably have some pretty nasty additives in there. Oil companies and builders are banking on this myth that you can't test oil and are deliberately producing these oils and advertising their "superior performance". Now on the flip side there are additives that will pass the flame test and can produce up to .6 HP on top end without sacrificing protection against wear. Some are even nonhazardous to your health with the exception that they tend to explode sometimes. The point being these are oxygenators which can greatly increase power but are exorbitantly expensive. These compounds are highly controlled and very hard to obtain. Very few racers are willing to pay $120 to $150 per gallon for oil, but some do and you are racing against them.

So while gains are extremely small fuel still needs a lot of attention for health reasons. Oil is where the real power is made and the flame test will catch most of it, but not all. A pump around will stop 90% of your fuel problem, Oil is what is hard to control.
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Great post Benny.
 
Quick update, we have been on the phone a lot the last few weeks and have learned a bunch, testing will be underway next week we have most of the products in our hands for testing, we have spoken to chemist and a few labs and got some interesting info.

We will keep everyone updated as we progress.
 
I do not think the oil additives are worst than the fuel as per the health hazzards but the oil additives are harder to find.
 
If you'll stick a screwdriver in the oil filler hole and bring it out with a thin film of oil on the screwdriver, you can wave a bic lighter underneath the screwdriver and if the oil has power enhancers, it will probably light off.
Credit for this one to Mike Bishop, former IKF tech years ago. :) Fairly quick and easy.
 
I haven't seen the sniffer in a awhile. They used to sniff oil in PA. Haven't seen it in a while. I know during the Elite Series at Susquehanna, on Saturday there were some distinct smells. Then they just marked the motor and let you take it back to your trailer. If you are serious about this, also ask that kart shops stop selling these products.
 
If the track provides the fuel they have a base to go by. The digatron will catch it if its off baseline.Thats the best way. You can also buy a sniffer to check oil. We use one every day to check lel in confined spaces at work. Check them before they run and record the baseline as part of the safety check especially at a big race........... You could also require a lubricant to be submitted for approval. Nascar does it and has no problems, because the penalty fits the crime.....LOL
 
Red Baron said:
If you are serious about this, also ask that kart shops stop selling these products.
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Kart shops only sell what is marketable. If racers were not asking for it they would not be selling it, and if the shops did not sell it, racers would get it somewhere else.

It would be more appropriate to say. If you are serious about this, also ask that RACERS stop BUYING these products.
 
Racing Promoter,Get ready to hear some whining.I have been using the DT-64 alot the last year it works great for getting the additives removed.Old fuel and dirty tanks also cause the tool to show contaniments in the fuel.Have faith they will get most of them clean by racetime but a few will push the issue but they will get tired going home without the money GOOD LUCK.
 
Greg, did that alcohol specific gravity chart get through to you? If not I will find another way to send it.
 
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