Yamaha Rules at Daytona

1fastyammy said:
Andrew

My dad taught me to respect my elders so I am sorry if I have offended you. So I wish you good luck.
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You should work on that a little more young man. :-(

Frankie. I raced my first yamaha race at Fruitland over 25 years ago. I think it is a great little track also. When I owned my track I used to work with Ronnie to not conflict dates on our bigger races. Ronnie would never tell somebody to or if you don't like it, leave. Where did you learn that from? Maybe that is why the place has really fallen off since he left.

I never bashed the track or you. If you could show me where you think i did. I will explain it to you.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
Y'all better keep it KT-100 only, because if you don't, I'll get a Parilla Swift JICA that puts out 24 on gas, stock, and add methanol and have it ported and maybe even bored out and you'll be trying to beat a 37hp motor with a 27hp motor. Now, having said that....

Perhaps the reason that there's not a larger turnout for Daytona, any class, is that to race it you have to basically tell your family, "Screw this Christmas!" and drive anywhere from 8 to 24 hours through variable winter weather to start a race for one season that starts in the previous year.... Pretty screwy if you ask me. Sure, it's become its' own tradition for some families, but it seems like bad business and social practice to me. I don't know of any other type of racing series in this hemisphere that tries to compete with XMAS. Want more entries? Schedule it when it's vacation-friendly for families without missing out on other stuff -- say like, February.

An regarding the KT-100 specs.....if the intent of this class is to be a "play" class for the UAS'ers, then keep the rules minimal, adjust weights to suit, and don't get tweaked if you have to race mid-pack because you didn't spend $3K on a motor or 300 hours in the gym. If it's to take advantage of the rumored 1000's of KT's out there, best to use the rules those 1000's were built to -- largely WKA stock. The easier you make it for people to race, and race in multiple venues, the more turnout you'll have. Decided what you're going for and make rules accordingly.
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Finally,,, some words of reason. Nicely put!!! LOL This is the differance between being diplomatic or just being brutilly honest.

The WKA Yamaha rule book was writen about 30 something years ago. It is the same rule book that WKA used 2 weeks ago at Daytona for the hundred or two yammis that ran inside the speedway on the road courses. The same rule book that Justin ran under that weekend inside the speedway. If it has been the rule book for the last 30 something years and it is still going strong now. Why is it not good enough to use at the WKA race outside the speedway on the dirt track.

Take the rule book from the last time WKA 2cycles ran on dirt before WKA devolved 2cycles. That year we had over 400% more entries in Yamaha than they had in the POS class this year at Daytona.

The rules were...

WKA Stock Yamaha(same rules as 2014 WKA yamaha)
Walbro stock on gas
350lbs

The POS rules now are messed up because they say it is about minimal tech. That's a BS smokescreen. The POS rules already allows WKA stocks engines on gas with a stock carb. That all already has to be teched. And now you have a second style motor(POS) that need teched. You still have to tech.

Did anybody get teched at Daytona? Was any fuel teched?Were any POS motors checked to see if the had Sudan crank, a little extra stroke, reed in the transfer? Anything??? Look. If you race. You need to plan on being teched. Plain and simple.

Ted. Sorry for putting all this on a reply to you.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
Y'all better keep it KT-100 only, because if you don't, I'll get a Parilla Swift JICA that puts out 24 on gas, stock, and add methanol and have it ported and maybe even bored out and you'll be trying to beat a 37hp motor with a 27hp motor. Now, having said that....

Perhaps the reason that there's not a larger turnout for Daytona, any class, is that to race it you have to basically tell your family, "Screw this Christmas!" and drive anywhere from 8 to 24 hours through variable winter weather to start a race for one season that starts in the previous year.... Pretty screwy if you ask me. Sure, it's become its' own tradition for some families, but it seems like bad business and social practice to me. I don't know of any other type of racing series in this hemisphere that tries to compete with XMAS. Want more entries? Schedule it when it's vacation-friendly for families without missing out on other stuff -- say like, February.

An regarding the KT-100 specs.....if the intent of this class is to be a "play" class for the UAS'ers, then keep the rules minimal, adjust weights to suit, and don't get tweaked if you have to race mid-pack because you didn't spend $3K on a motor or 300 hours in the gym. If it's to take advantage of the rumored 1000's of KT's out there, best to use the rules those 1000's were built to -- largely WKA stock. The easier you make it for people to race, and race in multiple venues, the more turnout you'll have. Decided what you're going for and make rules accordingly.
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X2...
 
Andrew the track was doing just fine when my dad was running it. Numbers were up. Everything fell apart when he went into the hospital and died in June. Ronnie did a good job as did Joe Spivey and Rod Fortune. Economy had an effect on it too. I didn't learn it from anyone I'm a grown man and I make mistakes. As I stated before I'm sorry. I'm done on the Yamaha subject. It is a loosing battle as we see here. Best way it to adjust the rules for next Daytona and see how the turn out is.


Frankie
 
:cool:
Justin Greene said:
The MAIN reason that there were only 8 Yamahas racing this year is simple,,,,,,,NO ONE PROMOTED THE RACE. NOBODY STEPPED UP TO PROMOTE THIS EVENT. Me? I ran my Yamaha inside DIS this year. Yes there are very valid points you are making about the rules. So with that, I would say get busy. Make it happen. Do something about it. Get involved. Make a change. PROMOTE AND RUN THIS EVENT. All you have to do is contact WKA and make it happen.At the same time, find some vendors/sponsors/manufactures to become pasionate about the Yamaha on dirt again. You build it, lets see it happen. The Yamaha racers are waiting,,,,,,,,,,,
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If you want to build some excitement, get Buller to make a bunch more Aero's, and run Twin KT Pro class, wedges, no noses. Or set the kart up like Seay's dual reed... And with that, I'm out. :)
 
Frankie,

I raced a lot of races at the track when dad was running it. We were very sad when he left us. Like I said. It is a great little track. Hell, we we're the ones that broke Ron Moon's long standing open modified track record at Fruitland park that Ron set there in 1991. We broke the record inn2005 in UAS. Jack was there that day. That was a few years after Jack started running with us.

So Frankie. Dont take things so seriously. You have only met me a few times. Ask guys like Wayne Howell who truely know me 18-20 years. He know what kind of person that I am. I have been karting since my first race in '76 at Ocala raceway in a Kinser kart. I resurrected a demised race track that revived karting in South Florida. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of karting and particularly the Yamaha. I can see where this is heading first hand. It is people like me that will put way to much money, over $3000, in 1990, into an SA built at Pratt/Whitney by a Yamaha building engineer. Hence the "Heightman Rocket". Heightman's won 7 consecutive WKA Dirt Nationals Championships. It is people like me that killed the class and there are other people like me that will kill this class again.

The WKA Yamaha is alive and well. My engine builder that make his sole living by building nothing but WKA Yamaha's. He had over 75 of his customers with WKA Yamahas at the speedway 2 weeks ago. When Briggs and Stratton was running WKA the 2strokes were the bastard step child of the dirt series. When the EPA kicked in that was all they needed to drop the class.

The rules are in the WKA rule book for Yamahas. It is billed as the WKA World Championships. Why can't we run the WKA rule book? We would get a lot more respect from WKA.
 
Fergusons brought back open 2 cycle what 4 years ago? They ran one day allstars the next. The UAS stuck and continues the open 2 cycle died a second death.
 
The only way to have no tec is a true RWYB, the only way to have minimal tec is like UAS, engine type, displacement , minimum weight. but , that's not what this post is all about, it's about the mixing of two versions of the KT, and whether it's a mix or stock only, there is no such thing as a minimal tec, it's a fact of life for racing "stockers" and for it to ever get back off the ground someone will have to do a thorough tec or it won't last long. The demise of KT racing in our area didn't have anything to do with mixing a SA in with them, and it wasn't because of the EPA, It was because these dang Briggs stockers became more popular because of cost or whatever and tracks promoted their money races for them, From a racer's view point that has built and run both engines , it made no sense at all, but it happened. It's starting to change again, I've seen some 500 to win races for the KT, that's the only thing that will bring it back alive IMO. Jon
 
Jon Brogden said:
The only way to have no tec is a true RWYB, the only way to have minimal tec is like UAS, engine type, displacement , minimum weight. but , that's not what this post is all about, it's about the mixing of two versions of the KT, and whether it's a mix or stock only, there is no such thing as a minimal tec, it's a fact of life for racing "stockers" and for it to ever get back off the ground someone will have to do a thorough tec or it won't last long. The demise of KT racing in our area didn't have anything to do with mixing a SA in with them, and it wasn't because of the EPA, It was because these dang Briggs stockers became more popular because of cost or whatever and tracks promoted their money races for them, From a racer's view point that has built and run both engines , it made no sense at all, but it happened. It's starting to change again, I've seen some 500 to win races for the KT, that's the only thing that will bring it back alive IMO. Jon
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Jon. Whay are you saying? ....."that's the only think that will bring it back alive IMO.

WKA Yamaha only?

Heavy tech?

Through in a little money?
 
Jon Brogden said:
Heavy Tec is a given, stocker or mix, purse money it what will get them off the shelves.
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Jon I agree with you in everything you said. You just did not expound on the fact that a top quality kt stocker costs 1700-1800$ now days to be competitive. That has been the downfall of the stock KT no other explanation for it. That's why the clowns I mean clones came to life. My son and I raced WKA in the late 80s and early 90s and Jim Stroud was the original GURU at MISI karts back then. He charged 1200 for a new engine and they would scream. David Stover won 2or 3 nat. championships with him as their personal mechanic. He was from Tulsa and my son and I raced against him regular. We beat him enough with our Cheap EMMIC and hand built KT JIM came to me and said I like the way that boy drives come by the shop and let me give ya a few pointers on building a Kt. He showed me how to square the cylinders to the cases and a few other tricks. But the stockers all were about bending the rules to get max HP for a price. That still applies today and how many people are willing to spend that kinda money on a engine that makes 18-20 hp max. Very few just the dads that have dreams of their son going into nascar or formula1. That's why almost all the Yamahas are in the juniors classes. Once the dads figure out that's a ultra slim chance they shift to clones to have a good time that they can afford. My point all along has been to make the KT an affordable engine to run with a lot more HP and enjoy. All the stockers out there that were blueprinted to be competitive in the stock class can be converted to a SA for very little money and cut those ultra expensive stock motor builders out of the loop. Like it or not that is the reality of the Yamaha KT 100. Its not gonna change until the cost comes down. There is a 142cc screamer on here right now for 1800 watch ya gonna spend your money own 55hp motor or 18 hp motor. Just saying these are the cold hard facts.
 
Mr South 59 said:
Due to contrary beliefs. The only thing that I have bashed is the POS rule package. I have not bashed any track or anybody on here.(well maybe TTown, but only after he got with me. He's a dumbass anyway)

Phantom. I remember that you said you run a WKA yamaha. You said you might come if it was WKA a few years back. Righ?
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I have both and have raced both. I currently have 2 WKA stockers on my twin that I raced in UAS a couple years back. Ran 2nd to Justin Westerfeld's 450 on a short track my first race with the UAS. Talk about nervous!!!

Brian #89
 
At Daytona this year for the 2013 WKA karting world championships. There was 3 series in competition. 1 was the Mazda Bridgestone Man cup. 2 was the Vega road racing series. And the 3rd was The WKA speedway dirt series.

At the Masda Bridgestone Man Cup in just the WKA Yamaha classes there were 144 entries in Yamaha.

At the Vega road racing series. The one Justin ran. Just in WKA Yamaha classes there were 119 entries in Yamaha. There was 44 Yamahas in one of the classes that Justin ran and 30 Yamahas in the other class Justin ran. 74 Yamaha's in just two classes alone.

So inside the speedway there were 263 WKA stock Yamahas entered.

Outside the speedway at the WKA Dirt Series. The biggest series that competed at Daytona again there were 8!!!

Yah 8 Yamaha's. 3 POS and 5 WKA Stock Yamahas at the dirt track.

The WKA Yamaha's are alive and well. And thriving. It is just this bs POS rule package that is killing them on dirt. You all can believe all the hog wash you want about building a yamaha in you bathroom for $350 complete with a new alky carb.(cough BS cough) But I can tell you WKA Yamaha is alive and kicking.

If the POS rule package is so great why don't the other 2 series adopt this POS rule package?

What I just don't get from TTown. He wants somebody who never build a motor to go on line. Buy a WKA Yamaha for $350-$500. It a perfectly good motor. Take it in your bathroom, or my case the outhouse (you know I can't afford a bathroom since I bought my NASCAR Whelen car lol) and dissect it. Buy a big bore piston and rings, crank bearing, big and little rod bearings, a new alky carb. Use the tools you already have now, wenches, pliers and screwdrivers and a file. (It don't take any special tools to build a POS.) Read his one paragraph on how to build a POS. And hit the track with a reliable piece. All for under $350. I don't know who taught this dumbass math but the numbers add up a little different down here closer to sea level. The thing TTown never told you is that when you get to the track there will be nobody at the track that wants to race against your alky POS just like at the dirt track at Daytona.


Maybe I should take my new $46,000 NASCAR Whelen motor out to the outhouse. Maybe I could turn that into a $350 POS and it not be legal anywhere also. Brilliant!!!

Sorry!!! I just couldn't resist
 
Andrew the sprint series is completely different than the dirt series. the Money involved in the sprint series dwarfs the dirt series it always has. The WKA yamaha dirt class in its hay day was nothing compared to the sprint series then or even now. Oh and by the way the dirt series event over all drew more entry's than the over all sprint did. The sprint series is in decline.
Like Mr Brogden says put the purse money up, then the class has a chance. Just complaining on bobs blaiming every body else does nothing.
 
Taft Racing said:
Andrew the sprint series is completely different than the dirt series. the Money involved in the sprint series dwarfs the dirt series it always has. The WKA yamaha dirt class in its hay day was nothing compared to the sprint series then or even now. Oh and by the way the dirt series event over all drew more entry's than the over all sprint did. The sprint series is in decline.
Like Mr Brogden says put the purse money up, then the class has a chance. Just complaining on bobs blaiming every body else does nothing.
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Tim. Although the dirt class did have the biggest draw, it did not draw more than both of those series combined. Actuilly. They had more entries that year than they did last year. Tim. Do some research. Don't be a pert of the smokescreen

Contrary to beliefs, I was pointing out that the WKA Yamaha motor is alive and well.

Tim. I think the only way to make this work is replace Yamaha with Stock 2cycle and somehow amend the rules to allow this POS motor to compete. That is the biggest problem. The POS motor is not in any sanctioning body's rule book and it just don't have any place for them to run. The Stock 2cycle rules book already has Yamaha and it has about every othe 100cc motor out there. If they could allow the POS to run than the 8-10 of them in the US could come and run at Daytona.

Only 2 came this year. I know way more than 2 Yamahas that didn't go because of the rules. It amazes me that we need to alter a rule book for 2 of them to come and race.
 
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