2015 WKA Road Race Classes

Gene Davis

New member
Currently at WKA Road Race events the following classes are offered:
National classes - Animal 335, Animal 360, Animal 385, Animal 410, Limited Modified 360, Limited Modified 385, Animal Junior Sprint Lite, Animal Junior Sprint Heavy, Clone 360 Final 1 and Final 2, Clone 385 Final 1 and Final 2, Pro Gas Final 1 and Final 2.
Local option class LO206 385 and LO206 360.

If you could start with a clean sheet of paper what would the class structure look like? What would you add, change, combine, delete? What engine modifications would you change or delete?

This is your chance to have your voice heard. Any suggestions will go to the Road Race Committee first. They will make a case for any changes and then give the results to the trustees for approval.

What we have done in the past on the 2 cycle side was to come up with rule or weight changes and then send a survey out to drivers that have competed in the classes the past 3 years to get their opinion on the changes. We get very good feedback when it is a direct mail survey.

I would prefer that you send your suggestions to me in an e mail at clgedavis@aol.com

Thanks in advance.

Gene
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
You need to clarify if those are "road race" classes meaning "Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, VIR long course" or if you really mean "sprint" classes. They look like "sprint" to me.
 

Gene Davis

New member
It is for the WKA Road Race Series that will race in 2013 at:
Daytona December 27 - 30
Kershaw April 4 - 6
Grattan May 16 - 18
Mid Ohio June 13 - 15
VIR July 25 - 27
NCCAR August 22 - 24
Summit Point October 10 - 12
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
A 4-cycle open class would be a nice local option.....kind of a catch-all rwyb for true opens and people who didn't fit neatly anywhere else.
 

Mike Stroik

New member
One question Gene, why do we need to look so far off on switching/or not switching these classes up when the pro gas became its own class in no time without input except from a select number of people? Id like to look towards the 2014 season and have Pro Gas be a local option and not involved in the alky classes for the season. That would be what has been done for years just like the clone and just like the limited mod. If its a viable class that is well attended for many if not all the events then surely make it a national class. Nothing against the engine package and the effort people have put towards making it a class in road racing just want it to be treated the same way all the other classes have been. Seems unfair for me to have had to run a full season except for a couple races a few years ago with my limited mod only for pride and no year end awards as a local option because that is what WKA said we had to do even with a class sponsorship, but Pro Gas does at the drop of a hat weeks before the first race of the season and they can run twice a day if you allow them to run with the alky animals with a weight break. Just my .02

Mike Stroik
 

Bob Vehring

New member
Gene, first I appreciate what you are trying to do, it needs to be done. However it would be hard to convince me the funny stuff will stop regardless of what goes through committee. An example would be the mid stream changes to LM which happened because one person was struggling with issues, and that one person happened to be a trustee. We sold all our LM's after that change.
Anyhow, to the point, I honestly don't think I could answer that question with out knowing what class entries were for those classes. For example I have seen very, very few cloans in RR'ing around here, ever, yet in being fair, I think that class does well for SKC down south. How it does in the Mid Atlantic area or at MO, IDK, are their enough entries series wide to justify a National class? Again IDK.

There's some funny ( or not so funny) stuff going on here. Cloans were brought in as a low buck alternative to BP Animals, however, now the price of a truly competitive cloan is closing in on Animal. Now PG comes out of nowhere yet price wise, is close to the cloan so you have 2 different engines somewhat serving the same niche in the market. IS that what we need or would one do it?
From your listing, it seems LO 206 is retaining its status as a Local Option, I assume, non points class, yet it has been around for a while and certainly growing its market share in the rest of the sport. At $535 and a factory sealed engine it would by far be the cheapest engine to attract new people, yet. its still not a points class. Hmmm, wonder why that is.

BTW, before someone reminds you, :) No, I am currently not a WKA member. Certainly I have been many times in the past and honestly, I would like to be again at some point in the future, but it is precisely this kind of stuff that keeps that from happening.
Thanks for caring
 

SteveK51

New member
We didn't have a Combined Gas/Alky class for 2014 from 5 weeks prior to Daytona, why not nix it by popular vote at 3 weeks out? That would seem to be the public opinion being put into action.

Gas Pro can run in its own class, the class that nobody is taking issue with.
 

gary10

Member
Please tell me why it is a big deal for the gas class to be mixed in? You guys with the alky will be faster anyway so why do you care if they want to run with you?
 

Mike Stroik

New member
Though I have never met you gary i respect your knowledge and talent in the sprint world. Never a 4 cycle gold cup race I dont see your name at the top of the charts. With that being said sprint and enduro are complete different animals no pun intended. We simply don't have any data on how they compare on enduro tracks so throwing them into the mix with a weight break just doesn't seem to make sense. So if you say they will be over matched by the alky animals, then won't stop them bargaining for less and less weight until alky is at a disadvantage. Then we have a good ole TAG dilemma on our hands. Im perfectly fine with them in their own class and since its in a different race during the day and won't draw numbers hopefully out of an already strong animal field in WKA. Personally id like to see it as a local option by themselves for year.

Mike Stroik
 

gary10

Member
Good point on the Tag comparison. I totally agree. I'm not a fan of mixing engine packages for the same reason. With the support behind the pro gas class I don't see a problem having it as a legit class. I see local option as a "yes we will take your money but you won't get anything in return" class. I'm still confident it will take closer to 30-40 pounds to equalize them if their are any sections where you have to slow down considerably. Either way, I don't have a dog in this fight. Just wanted the alky people to feel at ease a little bit since imo the pro gas will not be a threat.
 

JeffWebb

New member
I have raced the 206 for the past two seasons, after the clone rules spiraled out of the price point intended. As clone entries declined, the 206 increased, until the clone was granted national point status and the 206 was not. That pulled some back to clone. The 206 is still local option, even though it is the cost-conscious class that has been available, from a large supporter of the sport.
The whole point of this activity is to race. Now that there are so many choices, large fields have become rare. How many are going to justify the travel to race (usually the largest expense), to race with single-digit participants.
A spec engines cost will only increase as material costs increase. Any class that has some level of modification allowed will increase in cost, as everyone will search for that extra potential. And as I have learned on the internet, speed costs money. I have no objections to progas, as it's own class. Let it stand on it's own, like all engines before it.
 

Mike Stroik

New member
The local option portion of my post is in to regards on how i feel a few of us feel about the issue. Back several years ago when we got the idea for the Limited Mod in road racing the only stipulation was we had to get a class sponsor and try it out for a year as local option. This was working right through a trustee and competition committee so it sorta stinks to have run that class for a full year for nothing to get the class to be a national class to then turn around and see Pro Gas get it with no problem what so ever.

As far as what you think the pro gas would need to equal a alky animal the problem with road race tracks is there aren't tons of tracks where you really have to slow down considerably. From looking at Baker's dyno numbers the numbers i see on my tach at most enduro tracks they seem quite similar hp wise.

Mike Stroik
 

Bob Vehring

New member
Gary is correct on the performance differences, not really a problem, unless say you drop out with a problem, now maybe 5-6 PG people pass you up and push your finish position back wards. That does become a problem if your tracking season points.

The real problem is, we raced RR when it had 1000 entries at a race, we raced dirt when it had 2300. This has been on a down hill slide for a decade, instead of real fixes, we get this crap which no one seams to want.
Please don't give me the economy BS. (thats not Briggs and Stratton) Yes the econ sucks but it sucks 10 times more for people that race cars, bikes, boats, sleds, ATV's because those things all cost 10 times as much as kart racing. We are as cheap as it gets. IF what you have gets too expensive, and your really a racer, your still going to race, you just look for something cheaper to race. That's Karting. Karting can gain from this.
Badger has done well through these times because we understand this, and market directly to those forms of racing. Our numbers remain very good. If WKA, instead of making decisions like this, spent their energy making their racing better, giving their racers what they want,then market it, it too would grow.
Common sense tells me to just stay out of this, but I've spent 27 years of my life in it, I want it to be here ,and more important to be good for my grand kids. This is going downhill to far, to fast and there is no response from the powers that be in a member owned org. I find that un-aceptable
There's many pages here on just this subject, its been over a month. Its on FB, emails and ph.calls, and no one seems willing ti say they asked for this. WKA if theres a good reason for this, its not clear here, present it and talk it out. We know you read this, lets get it out in the open and work it out. Proceeding like this just drives a wedge in the sport, which helps no one
 

Jamie Webb

New member
If WKA wants to generate more revenue, give the WKA Animal classes a second slot in the lineup each day. I would imagine several of those guys would do it. So, how about it WKA, add in the WKA Animal into the Pro-Gas time slot also?? Score them separate, run at the same time. Everyone wins.
 

Bob Drye

New member
There will probally be 6 or more 4cycle sprint karts with big block clones at Daytona this year. Jeremy Parsons will be racing a new Margay with New Concept bodywork in that class. Dave Planakis and I will be driving Birels with 35hp big blocks.

A 4-cycle open class would be a nice local option.....kind of a catch-all rwyb for true opens and people who didn't fit neatly anywhere else.
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
I don't know if I can spring free for Daytona or not, but maybe I can talk Mike Clements into loaning me his 420 big block... :)
 

SteveK51

New member
So from my count, I've spoken with more than a dozen people between a chassis rep, 4 engine reps, and countless competitors who are not pleased with the plans for the 2014 classes. Who is pleased? Jerry, Peewee, and Van?
 

Kynascar1369

New member
As a new guy wanting to try the road race series , what is the concern with these gas motors and the ones ones on alcohol ?
I think the fuel difference would be in favor of the alcohol ones . His is from my drag racing experience . I was going to run one but I just might stay with my clone . Thanks
 

Mike Stroik

New member
Kynascar1369
Our only beef is that the alky class is already very strong and we don't need to start mixing in other engine types into it. With proper testing on enduro tracks with the weight break they would get we would be more than happy to atleast discuss combining them even though i still think its a bad idea.

Mike Stroik
 

Peewee158

Member
Hey Mike and Mr. Bob,

I do respect both of your ideas about the gas animal . I have talked to Van myself and he wanted the gas and alky combined ! I asked him myself to run them separate since we have a class Sponsor . As Steve has said , he had several people that has talked to him about this class . I as well , back several weeks had people call me about it . This engine package wasn't my idea but I was the one that talked and had people talk to me about it . WKA was going to allow the gas animal as a LO class with a sponsor ,which was found . Thru several conversations that I was not involved in , WKA decided that if they could get a larger sponsor that they would make it a National Class . I was called and ask if I was interested in sponsoring one of the finals and I agreed . I am sorry this could not only run as a class by itself . I hope all works out in Daytona and wise choices are made there .

With all due respect to each and every member of the animal both past and present ,I hope this issue is resolved as soon as possible and we can come to a common ground !

Peewee
 
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