One Fast Kat
Member
Still cheaper than a clone and last years longer. instead of months.
Are Predators killing the clone?
- Thread starter "J'-remy
- Start date
kartracer_3
Member
I just do not get someone spending $650 on a pred engine for a chance at winning a couple of hundred dollars then probably having it claimed at the end of the race night. Makes no sense to me. I can , well I could before this virus mess, buy a fresh very good running clone for $650.Comparing a Predator @ $150 to an L206 @ $1000 isn't quite apples to apples now, is it? I'll agree that the L206 is considerably more expensive @ $550 out of the box than a Predator from Harbor Freight. But for $1000 you're getting a race-ready, dyno tuned, L206 with ALL the bolt-on components. There are builders offering built Predators for $650 currently, and that's without all the bolt-on stuff.
I can't speak for every other shop out there, but our L206 pricing has gone up around $200 in 10 years....that's not bad at all in my opinion. A good rule set from the inception of the program helped curb costs, upgrades, updates, etc.
Our rebuilds are $100 + parts. Generally that runs $50 in parts and consumables, so you're @ $150 for a complete rebuild. That's not too bad for a race engine. If you want it dyno tuned, we charge $100 (incl. fuel & oil) for any brand of engine we tune.
As far as popularity of the L206, they have totally revived 4 cycle karting in the sprint world. We have a lot of dirt oval tracks in the midwest that have embraced it as well, but it's been tough to get it established in the south & east for obvious reasons.
The L206 has also changed the scene in parallel forms of racing such as 1/4 midgets, winged outlaw karts, & mini-wedge cars.
It's really not a bad engine program at all - 10 year old engines that are still legal and competitive today.
-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
32 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
$650 - 200 (winnings) - 150 (claim) = $300 for a win. That's how.
Some guys spend considerably more for tires to win big races today.
Kinda makes you miss the old days of racing for trophies....(and then again, there'd still be that "one guy" that spends money to win a trophy.)
kartracer_3
Member
650 - 200 -150 = 300 that you lose not win and that does not include entry fee or pit passes. SMH Now I know why some tracks do not pay out much of anything for the Pred classes , if I remember correctly one track in TN just hands out trophy's. and no I do not miss those dust collectors at all but one a year would be OK with me, just something to remember the season not a whole room full of them.$650 - 200 (winnings) - 150 (claim) = $300 for a win. That's how.
Some guys spend considerably more for tires to win big races today.
Kinda makes you miss the old days of racing for trophies....(and then again, there'd still be that "one guy" that spends money to win a trophy.)
Last edited:
racinnut15xm
Member
Give them to the little kids if you dont want them the glow when they get a new trophy is priceless
kartracer_3
Member
I have donated a lot of trophy's back to the local track in the past
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
That was kinda my point. To some, $300 to win a money race is cheap. Guys typically spend upwards of $1000s on tires alone to go to some big money shows....only one guy comes home with that oversized winner's check though.
In my opinion, all local races should be for trophies..and lower entry fees along with them. That will help get more people into these entry level classes. When you start paying money for them, it invites the veterans and more serious racers to that class.
Money races bring in car count, so the promoters like to push them. It essentially double their car counts in those classes and it's become common practice for a second class to be entered (to get car better or tires.) It's also become a common "requirement" to enter a second class to be able to run in the "money" class. I can't fault that business model if it works for them.
The problem is, the current racer mentality is that they need money races to be able to win back some of their expenses. So they spend more only to get back slightly more.
If they knew that all that they would get is a trophy, then the ridiculous spending on hopped up Harbor Freight Predators, tire programs, etc, would fade. There'd still be "that one guy," like I said, that will spend ungodly amount of money even to win a trophy. I think winning is more about bragging rights and pride than it is financial or common sense. Karting is not alone in this. Every form of racing that I've ever been involved with or seen has been this way, from your local street stocks to WoO sprint cars.
100% honest I could care less about the payout and I typically don't even look at it. High entry fees (WKA pavement race in NC for example) will turn me away from an event long before the payout structure will. I want the trophy and the memories! I have never made a single dime in racing. If I get anything at the payout window I have already spent it in my head before I ever get home on more racing stuff. Racing to "make money" will make racing a big zero on fun real quick....been there.
Personally I love the 206 motors, animals and clones. Been involved in kart racing 20 years. The predator class offers me nothing more than any other class and not one time have I ever said I should get one of those. (I have seen more bad wrecks in predator in the last 12 months than any other class)
Does it attract people to the HOBBY of kart racing yes. But when they get smoked for 6 months in the "affordable" class 75% of them get out of the hobby altogether.
Take 8 new racers at start of season and you only keep 2 by end of the season for example:
If you are only retaining 25% of your customers in any business......the business is dying.
Personally I love the 206 motors, animals and clones. Been involved in kart racing 20 years. The predator class offers me nothing more than any other class and not one time have I ever said I should get one of those. (I have seen more bad wrecks in predator in the last 12 months than any other class)
Does it attract people to the HOBBY of kart racing yes. But when they get smoked for 6 months in the "affordable" class 75% of them get out of the hobby altogether.
Take 8 new racers at start of season and you only keep 2 by end of the season for example:
If you are only retaining 25% of your customers in any business......the business is dying.
XXX#40
2A supporter
Sucks to race where you race.
Zero 206s and zero animals
Predator here is OTB with a max rpm rule, and the class is huge, many different drivers have won, and the racing is close.
Have not seen 75% leave, in fact it's larger now than it was 6 months ago, lite, medium, heavy and super heavy all full, and even the champ class is filling up
jaymancds
Member
Was the same way here last year. Now this year it's lower than it was in 2019.
XXX#40
2A supporter
More here than last year, and grows every week it seems.
But like I said it's out of the box, only thing you can do is drill the gas cap, and disconnect the low oil sensor.
Governor has to function, and a max rpm rule that is checked on the top 3
"J'-remy
Member
recently i heard they were tearing apart predator motors at Godspeed. When i talked to the track owner i asked what are you looking for? he told me they are checking jets all the way to the flywheel. They now allow up to a 36 jet and clone springs. sad thing is this is not posted anywhere. once this becomes common knowledge then people will look to cheat the motor elsewhere to gain and advantage. this is the beginning of tech then rules and finally blueprinting of the motors.
XXX#40
2A supporter
100 bucks Tater and Ashway will keep it like it is, blue Grey wanted to increase the claim and Tater declined
The new track in Lenior is supposed to follow Ashways rules, but that remains to be seen.
Beautiful track they are building there
Last edited:
XXX#40
2A supporter
You have godspeed to thank for that, they'll now split the racers, some will stay at ashway, and some will stay at godspeed, my guess godspeed will lose out in the end.
Predators are still 150.00 every day at HF, and with the amount of used ones around I'm sure you could put together another and still be way less than buying an AKRA/NKA clone
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Jamie,
Do you think your area tracks will stay the course on OTB this time, or will they cave like they did 15 years or so ago when you guys started with the first blue HF clones? Seems like the initial intentions of cheap OTB are always good, but they get corrupted in the end. History has a nasty way of repeating itself in our sport. I guess time will tell.
Do you think your area tracks will stay the course on OTB this time, or will they cave like they did 15 years or so ago when you guys started with the first blue HF clones? Seems like the initial intentions of cheap OTB are always good, but they get corrupted in the end. History has a nasty way of repeating itself in our sport. I guess time will tell.
Burris Racer
Member
I'm not sure how you're drawing the conclusion you're going to need two different engines. If you feel the need to change the jet and springs you wouldn't be bounced at either track. Godspeed might check and per what you wrote it's legal. It doesn't sound like the other track will check at all. I wouldn't have a guilty conscious if I changed springs or a jet in an out of the box class. The variation between these engines is well known. I don't have an issue with somebody wanting to change a jet to get their engine to perform on par with other engines.
Does this open the door to other changes that are blatantly outside of the rules? I'd say no, that door was already open. Look at how many engines have been tossed at Godspeed for infractions greater than a jet change.
XXX#40
2A supporter
Ashway has an rpm rule.
And yes Tater will look over the engine
XXX#40
2A supporter
1 track may, sounds as if the other is already allowing changes, and sounds like they have guys cheating too.
I'll be sure to let the tech man know at Ashway what to look for