Box Stock

Attention All Certified Tech

Excessive cutting of the 60 degree seat angle. Also replacing seats. No where in the book has AKRA given permission to cut the 60 degree angle more than 60 nor is there any print allowing replacing the seats. Now, as I tell all my tech people: you can’t call what you can’t see so don’t pick up poop with a pair of clean hands. So if seats are replaced it better not be able to be seen by the sloppy work that was done. Some go as far as putting a radeous instead of letting the defined edge of the cut on the aluminum around the outside of the seat. As compared to known stock part. Also in print is not to radeous the “D” section of the port. It is also compared to known stock part. We gave them until April 1 of 2021 to get them out of the field yet there is still an individual selling heads that way. This has forced us to design yet another tool to tech the seats. Tool is not ready yet. I can’t talk anymore right now. I am in my tree stand and signal is poor. Will post more in a day or so when we get it all sorted out. It will be on my web site
 
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It is bad when the karting world has to wait on rules, because the rule Committee can not decide on what to do with the illegal heads that are out there. The story I hear is that they’re just gonna change the rules to meet the legal heads. The rules have always been 30°, 45°, 60° on the valve seats. It has never been 30°, 45°, 75°. I don’t know what the problem is with keeping the rules that we’ve always had.
 
RaceCity said:
It is bad when the karting world has to wait on rules, because the rule Committee can not decide on what to do with the illegal heads that are out there. The story I hear is that they’re just gonna change the rules to meet the legal heads. The rules have always been 30°, 45°, 60° on the valve seats. It has never been 30°, 45°, 75°. I don’t know what the problem is with keeping the rules that we’ve always had.
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The motor builders are saying that it’s been changed to 75 degrees and that those flow a lot better than the 60 degree angle. Seems unfair to make all the legal guys need to get a new valve job now, but it sounds like it’s already done. Anyone have actual before/after dyno numbers from just the angle change? Just curious.

Arik
 
But I can’t get an answer about the carb that passes all specs with no numbers on it that’s illegal for some reason 😂 this is why I don’t run these junk motors. If it’sillegal it’s illegal don’t cater to people and change rules. It’s stupid these engines cost $1500 to begin with….
 
KKania17 said:
But I can’t get an answer about the carb that passes all specs with no numbers on it that’s illegal for some reason 😂 this is why I don’t run these junk motors. If it’sillegal it’s illegal don’t cater to people and change rules. It’s stupid these engines cost $1500 to begin with….
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If the tech man passes it , you win . Even if it doesn't have the correct lettering or "OK" . It could still fail elsewhere or next week .
The 60* heads would still pass too , even if at a disadvantage .
What's the news on the Rod is Billet going to be allowed ?
 
Arik434 said:
The motor builders are saying that it’s been changed to 75 degrees and that those flow a lot better than the 60 degree angle. Seems unfair to make all the legal guys need to get a new valve job now, but it sounds like it’s already done. Anyone have actual before/after dyno numbers from just the angle change? Just curious.

Arik
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its not official until it's in the rule book. having a 'builder' tell you what's legal is a bit like trusting a used car salesman.
 
I and several others wanted to put the foot down and make everyone comply with the 30/45/60 rule. When this all started AKRA got tons of calls with concern about what the cost would be for those who were running the heads that had the 75 cut. Shipping to and from and the parts and the labor would have been very costly especially since we found out it has been taking place for several years. AKRA only got wind of it in the last few months. When I say many many heads I could even add a few more many many’s. So which eye does AKRA want blackened? The eye that makes all those people who had there engines done by builders and had no idea reach in there pocket and pay to get it right? OR the eye that says lets fix it best we can with as little cost to the karter as possible. One way or the other AKRA is gonna have a black eye over this. When AKRA found out that the heads being done by a certain individual were exceeding the 75 they decided to design a tool to stop the manipulation of the seats. There is a good chance the tool will dq some of the 75 cut heads especially if the cutter was used heavy. As for the flow from 60 to 75 I couldn’t see a difference on my sf60 flowing at 28 inches. Let me share what I found in that $185 head sold by a certain builder. First it didn’t flow as good as the two I sent to Illinois. 2 cfm less as a matter of fact. Second the springs were illegal on the .040 from side to side. Third, the valve at .045 didn’t seal in two different places on the seat. And fourth, the “D” shape of the port didn’t conform to the rule of compared to known stock part. That rule states” must have a distinct edge”. The edges were as smooth as a baby’s ass. So, now we have a tool to stop the spirit and intent violation of the seats. Don’t shoot me I am just your voice. I don’t always get my way As for KKania17,the carb, I informed you that if you wanted that carb approved you would need to be a dealer and supply AKRA with a sample for review. There would also have to be enough for the entire karting public to purchase one. Don’t shoot me guys I am just your representative. Like I said, I don’t always get what I want for the sport. Before hammering on me take a serious look at the cost to make everyone compliant. 6 of one/half a dozen of the other at this point. Between a rock and a hard place.
 
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If the certain builder followed the rule it wouldn't cost any money.
Now we change the rule to allow the certain builder heads to be legal.
Cost everyone else money.
I guess this shows where AKRA is getting there money from.
And you thought AKRA was for the racers.🤷
This is why I drop AKRA member ship
 
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Nothing to do with AKRA getting money. It all has to do with not having a tool to check the 60. Yes builders took advantage of it. Are you telling us you could identify a 65 cut in the tech barn?
 
Too bad we can't leave the rules as are and let it rest with Whoever to make the illegal heads right with his customers. It really sucks that someone can flood the market with illegal stuff and we have to make it legal because there's too many out there already. I bet if customers had to buy new heads because he wouldn't make it right, they'd find a new engine builder. We shouldn't have to look at it as it will cost the Karter a lot of money but rather stand firm and let jimmie make it right or end up costing him a lot of money.
 
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So now everyone else who had legal heads will now want theirs to be updated to meet the new rules.which will end up costing even more money. Even the home builders will need to buy an addition cutter for that angle. Changing the rules to make illegal heads legal because some builders were already doing is not right.The builders doing that probably made good money for a product that should have passed rules.They should make it right with the customer instead of a rule change and if I was a customer with that builder and it was not made right I would go with someone else.
 
Like I said in my first print, it has been going on for many years. Now we need to put a stop to it before it gets more out of control. For those of you who don’t understand the concept, I can do a 75 cut deep into the seat come back and do my 30 and finish off with the 45 and if I do it right only those with a very experienced eye could tell that something didn’t look right. Otherwise it would pass for a 60. Kinda hard for tech to say the 60 isn’t 60 when there is no tool to check it.
 
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I pay my builder good money to deliver the most legal hp they can. if I was to get DQed for something my builder did then I gonna be having some words with my builder as in "you better make it right, and out of your pocket too" I would probably stop using that builder as well. now it looks as if the builders are making the rules. these builders should be called out so people know and when you see these stickers at the finish line it should be automatically go to the tech barn. the kart racer is gonna feel the pain and the builders are gonna profit off this Bologna. how about motors are open and the only rule is cc and no turbos that would fix it too.
And please explain the hiding of these builders names? they should be posted fo all to see. so the racer can tell the tech man what to look for and the builders can clean up their acts. plus I want to know if I have illegal motors or not.
 
DynoDon said:
I and several others wanted to put the foot down and make everyone comply with the 30/45/60 rule. When this all started AKRA got tons of calls with concern about what the cost would be for those who were running the heads that had the 75 cut. Shipping to and from and the parts and the labor would have been very costly especially since we found out it has been taking place for several years. AKRA only got wind of it in the last few months. When I say many many heads I could even add a few more many many’s. So which eye does AKRA want blackened? The eye that makes all those people who had there engines done by builders and had no idea reach in there pocket and pay to get it right? OR the eye that says lets fix it best we can with as little cost to the karter as possible. One way or the other AKRA is gonna have a black eye over this. When AKRA found out that the heads being done by a certain individual were exceeding the 75 they decided to design a tool to stop the manipulation of the seats. There is a good chance the tool will dq some of the 75 cut heads especially if the cutter was used heavy. As for the flow from 60 to 75 I couldn’t see a difference on my sf60 flowing at 28 inches. Let me share what I found in that $185 head sold by a certain builder. First it didn’t flow as good as the two I sent to Illinois. 2 cfm less as a matter of fact. Second the springs were illegal on the .040 from side to side. Third, the valve at .045 didn’t seal in two different places on the seat. And fourth, the “D” shape of the port didn’t conform to the rule of compared to known stock part. That rule states” must have a distinct edge”. The edges were as smooth as a baby’s ass. So, now we have a tool to stop the spirit and intent violation of the seats. Don’t shoot me I am just your voice. I don’t always get my way As for KKania17,the carb, I informed you that if you wanted that carb approved you would need to be a dealer and supply AKRA with a sample for review. There would also have to be enough for the entire karting public to purchase one. Don’t shoot me guys I am just your representative. Like I said, I don’t always get what I want for the sport. Before hammering on me take a serious look at the cost to make everyone compliant. 6 of one/half a dozen of the other at this point. Between a rock and a hard place.
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I guess we will know shortly if rules committee are Democrats or Republicans. The Democrat way, there’s too many here so let’s change the law and make them a citizens. The Republican way, I don’t care how many damn illegals are here send them back over the border.
I’m a Republican. Let’s go Brandon
 
J'-remy said:
I pay my builder good money to deliver the most legal hp they can. if I was to get DQed for something my builder did then I gonna be having some words with my builder as in "you better make it right, and out of your pocket too" I would probably stop using that builder as well. now it looks as if the builders are making the rules. these builders should be called out so people know and when you see these stickers at the finish line it should be automatically go to the tech barn. the kart racer is gonna feel the pain and the builders are gonna profit off this Bologna. how about motors are open and the only rule is cc and no turbos that would fix it too.
And please explain the hiding of these builders names? they should be posted fo all to see. so the racer can tell the tech man what to look for and the builders can clean up their acts. plus I want to know if I have illegal motors or not.
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The only problem is that some so called builders buy alot of parts and assemble them .. Meaning just because he called one name with these heads doesnt mean you just look for that particular sticker . Several builders buy heads from him . As Race City said .. We are about to see what politics will do in certain parts of rule making .
 
Don, the carburetor I’m pretty sure you said you have one in your possession. 2, if it passes specs and no go what is the problem? Again I don’t own these junk motors, I just want to hear a real explanation at this point, especially since you and tut brought the post back from the spring dancing around it saying you can’t run it with no detail.

And yes, the builder should get the black eye and claim responsibility for what they’re doing. If it’s illegal it’s illegal claim why and don’t dance around. If there is no way to tech something, then have at it or train your personnel how to do things! Unfortunately a tech guy In this post couldn’t be bothered to wrap an RPM lead around a plug wire to check RPM on a predator but now only an experienced eye can check for this…. It was a nice concept keeping the builders out, but they were catered right back in, now $100 motor is $1500 and the predator isn’t far behind…. Where does it stop? Seal them up completely from factory and go race, blow it up buy another for $100. Explode a flywheel, by a new motor for $100. No “tuning” no engine decals and no pro races!
 
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The carburetor, hummm hasnt been submitted so its not approved,kinda like another importer that also had a carb that wasn’t approved. Yet both mentioned meet the specs .. but a head that has wrong angles cut in america is at question to be allowed .. Makes absolutely zero sence ..
 
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