Attention All Certified Tech

If the rule says 60* and the tech isn't or cant check it then thats the fault of the ruling organization .
I pay a builder to build the most hp . The Tricks or Gray area is part of that .
It shouldn't be the builders need , too pay the cost of fixing the head .
They did what I wanted exploit the rules .
Same thing happened with the animal head .
Some wouldn't pass tech . All the others except the RT1 are illegal now .
The fix is never going to satisfy everyone .
I glad I am not the rule maker or the rule messenger .
 
I know it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but seems to me the rules committee knew there was no way to tech the number of *
this is the way the rule should have been written once the 3 angles were allowed.
There are a lot of rules out there that they cannot tech. One of them that is always bug me was the 87 octane test. There’s no way they can test octane of the fuel out in the field. Not that it really matters, because higher octane does not help you anyway. But that is just one of the silly rules that they have had forever.
 
So now everyone else who had legal heads will now want theirs to be updated to meet the new rules.which will end up costing even more money. Even the home builders will need to buy an addition cutter for that angle. Changing the rules to make illegal heads legal because some builders were already doing is not right.The builders doing that probably made good money for a product that should have passed rules.They should make it right with the customer instead of a rule change and if I was a customer with that builder and it was not made right I would go with someone else.
Agree completely. I realize they couldn’t really tech for it before, but Don says there is a tool now…so keep the rules as-is and check them accordingly. If Akra knew they were gonna piss off 50% of the people no matter what, I would have chose not to penalize the legal guys. Bad decision. Just because guys have been doing it for years is not a good reason to change the rule for them.
 
So what AKRA is saying it’s ok to cheat. If they catch you they’ll just change the rules to make whatever you did legal. There should have been a way to check the angles from the get go if your going to make a rule on it. Obviously it’s an advantage or there wouldn’t have been one. If you want to ensure less cheating in future, hit the engine builder where it hurts. They’ll all think twice about it in the future.
 
“ Cutting of the valve seats allowed to insure proper seal.” That is the rule that has us in trouble. Are you able to visualize how that can be problematic
 
Just for the record, Get out your AKRA 2021 or before rule book. It's right there is print. No new rules or addends. Been that way for 7 years that I know of. Taught in Tech classes for over ten years that I know of. The tech on seats are Max Intake .899 and Max Exhaust .862. No getting into the aluminum below the seats has been that way from the beginning since porting started. Right in the rule books! Just didn't get caught until recently. Maybe the heads need to be taken off during tech to be checked on a regular basic.

AKRA is not costing anyone money to fix the part. The manufacturer of the part that is Cheating for a performance gain should be contacted to fix the problem! AKRA IS NOT COSTING AND RACER A PENNY! THE RULES HAVE NOT CHANGED!

This is the part that really problems me!!! Now they the builders that use this part get a free past (PERFORMANCE GAIN which is not legal, MAYBE A .625 CARB WITHOUT THE HEAD IN QUESTION) until January 1, 2022 to fix. For all the other builders not running this part, they should or need to get a performance gain about the same (I assume by cheating with another part or parts) to get the same level the with the others until January 1, 2022!

I IN NO WAY HARBOR BAD OR ILL FEELING FOR THE BUILDER USING THIS PART THAT CREATED THIS PROBLEM. IT IS TOTALLY ON THE MANUFACTURER OF THIS ONE PART THAT HAS CREATED RACERS A BIG MONEY PROBLEM TO GET THEM FIXED!
Post #2 .
Is this also a part of the degree problem or something altogether different ?
Post 5 addresses this .

DynoDon

Moderator​

I will be making a post in a few days. There is a problem with the seats on a head that is being sold and we are working on how to handle it as not to hurt the karter any more than we have to. I will tell you that we are working on gauges to put a stop to the issue. At this point in time as long as the seat meets the .899 and .863 at the bottom we aren’t calling it. The 60 degree cut is being abused.
 
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Like I said flattop. I am just someone on the committee trying to HELP but I don’t have the final say. The information gathered after post 2 and post 5 has been mind boggling.
 
Didn't we have the same situation with retainers being machined? Then it was decided that their were too ma y in the field so we made them legal. AKRA punishs the guy who is legal and let the builder who cheats off the hook. Shouldn't we be keeping the fox out of the chicken coop?
 
If the 75 degree thing has been going on for years, and its some sort of advantage, why is AKRA just learning of it now? Seems like someone should have noticed something in tech long before now.
 
The whole thing seems really familiar to those of us who lived the transition of the flathead.

The "compared to a known stock part" was thrown out the window after manufacturer started glass beading inside the engine from the factory.

Porting, seat heights, valve angles, all became much easier to tech as there was no tool that would define all factory engines over the years.
Aftermarket valve springs, slapper cams, manipulating spring installed heights, were all products of builders having "untechable" items already out there, some passing tech all the way to the nationals before being tossed. By the same "techmen" that had been passing them. These were also builders of engines at the time


Those who don't know their history will be forced to relive it.
 
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If the 75 degree thing has been going on for years, and its some sort of advantage, why is AKRA just learning of it now? Seems like someone should have noticed something in tech long before now.
Let me explain my experience on it. Everything happens down south and trickles up north. ALL the big money events are down south. Most of the engines down south are NKA. They have a no porting rule. ( I won’t get into that ). Even the sloppy seat job on an NKA head would have been seen by them if heads were pulled. Let me explain that last sentence. Many promoters don’t want the tech to disassembly the engine by removing the head because it makes the owner upset that he must send the engine back to the builder. An upset customer could end up in a loss of revenue. Tracks are competing for karts so let’s keep everyone happy. Then you have the politics of the game of if “ I make this call I may not get called back for future tech.” Up here in Pa we don’t have any big money races just series racing. I can’t remember the last time a series racer up here had his head pulled. OR his engine cc’d. Again, let’s not make the racer mad!! NOW, how did I discover it? Keep in mind that the 75 cut if done properly can be disquised very well if done properly and not noticed by the untrained eye. Let’s face it, how many of you really want your head removed on a Friday/Saturday night event? Some of you believe as I do in that it is a part of the process to determine legality at the end of the night BUT others of you that don’t have the skill of putting it back together and need to send it away for reassembly don’t agree. So there in lies the second reason it hasn’t been discovered. Here is another. Only recently ( in the last year ) has this head seller been selling this particular costly head to individuals and kart shops. With the comings of COVID ( not many tracks open or not many people wanting to risk their health, me included, less tech has taken place up here. There hasn’t been a tech seminar in three years. Oh, by the way, how many tracks don’t have certified techs to do the job? You know, that trained eye!! One of my certified techs purchased two of the heads and called me. I ask him if he could get it to me and he did. I could have turned my head as probably others have done but I couldn’t let it go. You asked how it got this far? Here is a perfect example. Once I notified the public of the problem a particular builder who has the heads on his engines called a promoter of a big event that was only two weeks away and said his engines wouldn’t be participating because of the situation. That promoter informed the public on Facebook that their tech committee decided they weren’t calling it at their event. From what I was informed, no heads were removed. And now you know “the rest of the story”
 
“ Cutting of the valve seats allowed to insure proper seal.” That is the rule that has us in trouble. Are you able to visualize how that can be problematic
Actually yes I can see this causing difficulty, however even with me being a motor moron like I've admitted many times, I could have also seen once cutting of the valve seats was allowed it causing even more difficulty, especially adding a number of degrees to it with no tool to check it, anything with rules the participants are going to try to out fox the rules, so the key is for the rule writers to always stay one step ahead in the game avoiding the future problematic situations.
 
Let me explain my experience on it. Everything happens down south and trickles up north. ALL the big money events are down south. Most of the engines down south are NKA. They have a no porting rule. ( I won’t get into that ). Even the sloppy seat job on an NKA head would have been seen by them if heads were pulled. Let me explain that last sentence. Many promoters don’t want the tech to disassembly the engine by removing the head because it makes the owner upset that he must send the engine back to the builder. An upset customer could end up in a loss of revenue. Tracks are competing for karts so let’s keep everyone happy. Then you have the politics of the game of if “ I make this call I may not get called back for future tech.” Up here in Pa we don’t have any big money races just series racing. I can’t remember the last time a series racer up here had his head pulled. OR his engine cc’d. Again, let’s not make the racer mad!! NOW, how did I discover it? Keep in mind that the 75 cut if done properly can be disquised very well if done properly and not noticed by the untrained eye. Let’s face it, how many of you really want your head removed on a Friday/Saturday night event? Some of you believe as I do in that it is a part of the process to determine legality at the end of the night BUT others of you that don’t have the skill of putting it back together and need to send it away for reassembly don’t agree. So there in lies the second reason it hasn’t been discovered. Here is another. Only recently ( in the last year ) has this head seller been selling this particular costly head to individuals and kart shops. With the comings of COVID ( not many tracks open or not many people wanting to risk their health, me included, less tech has taken place up here. There hasn’t been a tech seminar in three years. Oh, by the way, how many tracks don’t have certified techs to do the job? You know, that trained eye!! One of my certified techs purchased two of the heads and called me. I ask him if he could get it to me and he did. I could have turned my head as probably others have done but I couldn’t let it go. You asked how it got this far? Here is a perfect example. Once I notified the public of the problem a particular builder who has the heads on his engines called a promoter of a big event that was only two weeks away and said his engines wouldn’t be participating because of the situation. That promoter informed the public on Facebook that their tech committee decided they weren’t calling it at their event. From what I was informed, no heads were removed. And now you know “the rest of the story”
It's always fun to race against those who know how the "rules" are going to be applied.

Why not list as stock appearing, so everyone has the same knowledge?

I know, where there is confusion, there is money to be made.

Ok, I've vented.
 
I believe in following the rules . the cats out of the bag as they say .
there really is only one solution . with a tool to check for 75* .
75* is the max , you either already have that head or you can change it .
from 60* too 75 * or leave as is .
It was a Secret its not any more .
 
NKA is nothing but a joke of an association. The guy that is over it has no clue what tech is or how to run it & when asked a question, the reply is ask this one certain tech man which that certain tech man is the one that is pretty much running & writing the rules & his pockets is being fed by a few select engine builders here in the south & a lot has caught on to what is going on. If you keep your eyes & ears open & pay attention at these money races & watch who is in tech & how & what is being done especially if you been in it since back in the flathead days, its obvious what is going on.
 
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