How can we better karting, and intice new racers to bring back karting?

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
Maybe someone should check out the national enduro series. They run all
kinds of different karts and engines from vintage to new rigs and get it done in a timely manner. Pittsburgh just had something like 500 karts. later Chuck.
Chuck -- it's interesting to me that Enduro has had a real resurgence lately. IMO, it's because of the laid back FUN atmosphere, and the fact that you can slot in to SOME class SOMEWHERE almost regardless of what you bring to the track. On the down side, it's PRICEY for entry fees. On the up side, you get 45m of track time at a lot of cool venues... (in comparison, with 12s laps, you're on an oval track only about 12 min. for 60 laps.)

It seems that karting goes as the tracks go....if the tracks decide to band together and work as "friendly competition" and set common rules and promote stability, the sport benefits. If tracks allow favorites, don't do good tech, and allow rough driving, the sport suffers. Karting will likely always be the most accessible form of motorsports, but the electric revolution may cause some interesting wrinkles... Imagine being able to run an oval series in the middle of town because noise isn't a concern... Time will tell what happens. I'll be doing my best to adapt to whatever exists. (When I actually show up.)
 
Hmmm, if I was a prospective new karter, came on here to try and get informed to make a decision before jumping in, read this thread with all this whining about too many classes, engines, tires, prep, how I can’t win against the next guy/gal, I’d decide to do something else
If you were a prospective new karter coming on here, you'd be 10 steps ahead of every other new karter. :)
 

Slick27

Member
It is a pay to play hobby and I don't see any hobby getting cheaper these days.

If you complain about too many classes you should state how many classes you typically sign up for on a race day......
 
Just an idea, Why not put all kids on LO206, Easy tech, Then they can runs same engine all through the lower classes, Not worry about special track rules , or sanctioning Bodies rule changes. These tough engines are purpose built racing engines that will last at least 3, 4,5 years with little maintenance. Could be used for beginner adults. and then once they learn the ropes, It is a simple operation to turn it into a regular animal. Same engine with a few rebuilds will last years and years.
.
Buy good products designed for the purpose of racing and NOT the cheapest engine on planet earth and you will save money. There will be fewer classes, Kids will not have to arrive at the track at 10 Am a leave at 11PM and be rushed to the grid and then wait for 20 plus other classes to practice, 1 , and 2nd round, qualifying , then the race. All day just to get on the track for 45 laps. And cheating will be cut down very drastically, to almost zero. Rules never change from track to track. If you race lo206 in California, Long Island, Georgia, Or MO. still the same rules.
Just to let you know, I did the clone route and found it to be to complicated and expensive. Some tracks I could not run without buying another engine. Yellow cases, Box stock project, Ducar block, EC block???? Predator; Different tracks have different rules , NO Tech. Usually just an RPM check,easy to cheat. LO 206 is electronically controlled and impossible to cheat it up.. And just like the early clone- ran out of the box for a while then spec rules came out and then it was a blueprinted clone costing More than a new LO 206. as much as a blueprinted Animal. Or Flathead. Predator is starting down the same path.
 
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racer

Member
Just an idea, Why not put all kids on LO206, Easy tech, Then they can runs same engine all through the lower classes, Not worry about special track rules , or sanctioning Bodies rule changes. These tough engines are purpose built racing engines that will last at least 3, 4,5 years with little maintenance. Could be used for beginner adults. and then once they learn the ropes, It is a simple operation to turn it into a regular animal. Same engine with a few rebuilds will last years and years.
.
Buy good products designed for the purpose of racing and NOT the cheapest engine on planet earth and you will save money. There will be fewer classes, Kids will not have to arrive at the track at 10 Am a leave at 11PM and be rushed to the grid and then wait for 20 plus other classes to practice, 1 , and 2nd round, qualifying , then the race. All day just to get on the track for 45 laps. And cheating will be cut down very drastically, to almost zero. Rules never change from track to track. If you race lo206 in California, Long Island, Georgia, Or MO. still the same rules.
Just to let you know, I did the clone route and found it to be to complicated and expensive. Some tracks I could not run without buying another engine. Yellow cases, Box stock project, Ducar block, EC block???? Predator; Different tracks have different rules , NO Tech. Usually just an RPM check,easy to cheat. LO 206 is electronically controlled and impossible to cheat it up.. And just like the early clone- ran out of the box for a while then spec rules came out and then it was a blueprinted clone costing More than a new LO 206. as much as a blueprinted Animal. Or Flathead. Predator is starting down the same path.
206's are not vintage though, I am pretty sure!! In vintage, start all beginners in the 49 class. Just a woman and her opinion!
 
There are multiple suggestions on this thread suggesting that the elimination of tire prep will entice new racers or help retain current racers. Can someone help me understand why that would be the case?

I have very limited experience outside of Burris tires so I can't speak from an authority level on the subject. However, my experience is that prep helps level the playing field and keep cost down. I would likely be on fresh tires more often than I am now if prep was not allowed. Budget racers would not want to compete with racers that are willing to continue to buy new tires. Conversely, the budget racer that knows how to use prep has a better chance at competing with the racer that is willing to spend the money on new tires. I realize this isn't the case on track surfaces that require minimal to no prep.
 

"J'-remy

Member
There are multiple suggestions on this thread suggesting that the elimination of tire prep will entice new racers or help retain current racers. Can someone help me understand why that would be the case?

I have very limited experience outside of Burris tires so I can't speak from an authority level on the subject. However, my experience is that prep helps level the playing field and keep cost down. I would likely be on fresh tires more often than I am now if prep was not allowed. Budget racers would not want to compete with racers that are willing to continue to buy new tires. Conversely, the budget racer that knows how to use prep has a better chance at competing with the racer that is willing to spend the money on new tires. I realize this isn't the case on track surfaces that require minimal to no prep
People who know Burris tires don't know Maxxis and Maxxis racers don't understand Burris. Maxis tires are NOT rubber they are a polyester plastic tire. they are thin they have stiff sidewalls and the sizes fit 10 inch wheels MUCH better than a Burris. it is a way wider tire with square sides. However my opinion as a Burris racer they are Malaysian Junk that are completely chemical dependent and only last about a month before they need to be tossed out. Pro maxxis racers typically have 5-6 set that they throw away for every race. Donnie Nall will sell you a SET OF 4 TIRES that he qualified on for $50.00. he uses a set of tires to qualify and THROWS THEM OUT. Maxxis and the Prep developers make big money selling tires to the Carolinas. Be thankful your not running Maxxis I don't think I could afford to.
 
People who know Burris tires don't know Maxxis and Maxxis racers don't understand Burris. Maxis tires are NOT rubber they are a polyester plastic tire. they are thin they have stiff sidewalls and the sizes fit 10 inch wheels MUCH better than a Burris. it is a way wider tire with square sides. However my opinion as a Burris racer they are Malaysian Junk that are completely chemical dependent and only last about a month before they need to be tossed out. Pro maxxis racers typically have 5-6 set that they throw away for every race. Donnie Nall will sell you a SET OF 4 TIRES that he qualified on for $50.00. he uses a set of tires to qualify and THROWS THEM OUT. Maxxis and the Prep developers make big money selling tires to the Carolinas. Be thankful your not running Maxxis I don't think I could afford to.
Totally not true.
 

"J'-remy

Member
Totally not true.
Totally not true??? (insert eye roll)
when is the last time a 2 yr old maxxis won a big money race? Happens all the time with Burris. used Burris tires are expensive compared to Maxxis. 98% of all internal preps were designed for maxxis as were the tire rollers. I have spoken to Donnie Nall on several occasions he told me i would need a set just to qualify on if i was serious about winning. I bought a set from him for $50 and they looked brand new, had the lines on the sidewall completely untouched. Maxxis are made in Malaysia it says so on the sidewall. they are polyester tires.


What am i making up???

the only people scoffing at no prep rules are the people selling prep.
 
A 2 yr old Maxxis wont win a money race, that wasnt and hasnt anything to do with what i quoted.
You said Donnie throws out his tires after he qualifies on them, thats what i quoted and said wasnt true. Donnie is a friend, and he has raced on tires he has qualified on, matter of fact hes raced on my tires after we have raced them before.
Now does he sell some tires that just have qualifying laps on them, im sure he has, as most Maxxis racers have.
 

"J'-remy

Member
No, I don't think I am. :)
so how do you explain the popularity of the l206 to the Yamaha KT 100 or any other popular 2 stroke sprint platform? Or the fact that Predator counts are 3 to 4 times higher than clone kart counts? you cant tell me cost of the engine does not play into that.
explanations need something more than 'no' or 'your wrong' we're not politicians here (at least i hope not)
 

jsf74

Member
Wonder why karting was at its height was when you had Firestones. Fastest tire was when fresh and prepped, and they raced them 1 time, threw on another set, and did it all over again. New set every time you hit the track, and were always prepped, and had the biggest kart counts karting has ever seen.
Prep and tires arent the issue.
I would rather buy new tires and have everything equal than get beat by the secret formula of the evening. Levels the playing field big time.
 

Komet99

Member
A 2 yr old Maxxis wont win a money race, that wasnt and hasnt anything to do with what i quoted.
You said Donnie throws out his tires after he qualifies on them, thats what i quoted and said wasnt true. Donnie is a friend, and he has raced on tires he has qualified on, matter of fact hes raced on my tires after we have raced them before.
Now does he sell some tires that just have qualifying laps on them, im sure he has, as most Maxxis racers have.
I won the regional points series when I used to road race......on.....you guessed it.....a set of 2 year old maxis.
To be very clear...8 race season, multiple laps of practice, 30 min enduro races on a 2 mile track. No preps, maybe some sanding to get the flings off of it.

Back to the original subject. The things that I noticed over the last 25 years of being in this sport. Multiple types of engines and each one has its own class. Could you imagin if World of Outlaws had a dodge class, then a ford class, then a cheby class? what about run them all together with weight breaks (NASCAR does a similar situation with the 358CID rule). It really didnt come to mind when a dude asked me one time why he had to run his Euro 100cc piston port in a different class than I ran my Japan 100cc piston port.
 

Bob Evans

Administrator
so how do you explain the popularity of the l206 to the Yamaha KT 100 or any other popular 2 stroke sprint platform
I've only seen anecdotal evidence of this statement. My personal belief is that there are still more ancient and obsolete flatheads being raced nationwide on a weekly basis than LO206's, not in sprint obviously, but total nationwide.
Or the fact that Predator counts are 3 to 4 times higher than clone kart counts?
Again anecdotal, I don't doubt that's what you might be seeing, but it doesn't make it so for the whole country. And it surely doesn't explain why my Clone forum has three times the pageviews of my Predator forum.

As a rule I normally refrain from calling BS, but sometimes I just jump in there. :)
Also, proving me wrong isn't any real accomplishment, just ask my wife.
 

"J'-remy

Member
I've only seen anecdotal evidence of this statement. My personal belief is that there are still more ancient and obsolete flatheads being raced nationwide on a weekly basis than LO206's, not in sprint obviously, but total nationwide.

Again anecdotal, I don't doubt that's what you might be seeing, but it doesn't make it so for the whole country. And it surely doesn't explain why my Clone forum has three times the pageviews of my Predator forum.

As a rule I normally refrain from calling BS, but sometimes I just jump in there. :)
Also, proving me wrong isn't any real accomplishment, just ask my wife.
My guess would be questions like "who builds the best predator" choices of predator cams how do i port this, what jet, how far does this track tear your motor down? etc are kept more to private conversations in the predator section. LOL
 

"J'-remy

Member
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100 sets of tires and 8 karts for a small team to go to one race. that's 12 sets per kart at $5400.00 current market. How can we get more people into this sport?
 
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