has anyone tried running a pair of 125cc sudans
- Thread starter ttownwideglider
- Start date
Neo
Member
There's a lot of misinformation in that post. Why are you so against the Jawa's? You want to go build a billet animal or something and see how much that costs you to run for awhile?
JawaMaster09
New member
Remember guys there are people on here that will tell you that they know best and they have all this well engineered trick stuff that they build and how great it is but facts are facts and none of that stuff is in the front at a National level and they can't argue that statement at all!!! let your time tickets do the talking as the Jawas already have by being in the front and the engine to beat at every big money race and national event in the last two seasons!!!! that is easy math for anybody that does not let personal feelings affect there opinions and perspective. I'm not the only one that has one anymore and now the UAS will see more of them in the front if the right people get them it is still about tires if you don't know what youare doing you will not hook this thing to the ground...
On a side note I'm not going to get into another arguement on here about the past (weather you like what my team did or not) and I will not stand for the BS that a person keeps bringing up and will not let go of! this is starting to be harassment on me by this person I will email bob's if this continues!! My opinion is just as good as anybody elses I actually have done the things I talk about on here and have a front running kart and engine package my karts perfomance speaks for its self, unlike my attacker's perfomance If he has it all figured out his trick stuff would be running in the front racing the best in the UAS for the prize and the abillty to have an respected opinion on what to do or what not to do to build a winning kart.
On a side note I'm not going to get into another arguement on here about the past (weather you like what my team did or not) and I will not stand for the BS that a person keeps bringing up and will not let go of! this is starting to be harassment on me by this person I will email bob's if this continues!! My opinion is just as good as anybody elses I actually have done the things I talk about on here and have a front running kart and engine package my karts perfomance speaks for its self, unlike my attacker's perfomance If he has it all figured out his trick stuff would be running in the front racing the best in the UAS for the prize and the abillty to have an respected opinion on what to do or what not to do to build a winning kart.
Taft Racing
Member
Thats not true jerry. You've been beat allot. The gn 2 years ago a sudam sat on the pole. It left you guys in its wake. If he didn't break he was gone. After that your jawa took over. But then again a brc and a sudam ran you down passed you and again left you struggling for grip. Again at the big o a sudam set sail on the field. He also suffered engine issues. Another puny engine ran you jawa down and was stuck up your tail pipe. At this years gn. Yourvjawa easily passed the sudam center off. But it never could do the same to chase. Robbie had to out drive him into and through the corner he couldn't make the pass center off. Robbie yows brc had matched the best lap times of the day if hadn't gotten wrecked out he for sure would have made it a 3 man race. You sell the same I know more than any one else crap that you claim were selling. The jawa is a great engine. Put a shay chavous Donny wheeler package on a 250 and every one will wonder if the 250 can be beat. The best thing about all of this is now where else can you do what we do in America. Build stuff high dollar or low dollar build it in state of the art machine shops or just a simple garage and go race. This uas thing is just flat fun and if you guys can take the chip off your shoulder you can have allot more fun racing for bragging rights. Oh and mike Grady. You make statements like that yet. You have 0 wins on a 250 or 450. All your wins are from a puny 131 or 100 cc. How come mike? With that I'll let this thread go
JawaMaster09
New member
Oh yeah I'm just lucky thats all it was!!! Maybe one day your stuff will be in postion and be lucky and win something! LOL I think you are just upset because you can't bragg about winning anything with all your great ideas on building a great UAS kart that wins races... A win is a win no matter how you got it! Get back to me when you have won something at a national level with something you have built or owned! You have along way to go it shows in all your posts....
Taft Racing
Member
Its always about you jerry. There's no such thing as having any chance having a serious fun discussion. You always have to turn stuff into a how great you are how stupid every one else is arguement. I build allot of junk I help allot of people go race. Your only interested in bragging how great you are. I just don't have time for your cut throat mentality
Hey Mitch, I would take you up on that little bet, but instead of $10, let's do an American Muscle Kart subscription (I think it 15). Robby has been fast but in every race there were also some very fast karts. I was trying to remember who finished 2nd behind Robby at the Big O, that guy was right on his bumper. I might be wrong but I think a Jawa without Robbys experience is gonna have a hard time being controlled. I just remember this same scenario when the Wankels came out. I would think if the Jawa won more than 50% of the races they enter, You win. I don't know if that isn't being fair enough, let me know what you think. Hopefully we can keep it friendly and have some fun with it. Everyone of these guys on here when you meet them face to face are pretty good guys from what I have seen over the years.
JawaMaster09
New member
And you are only interests in helping some one if they share the same opinion about something as you... I have sent Bob's an email about what you do on here....
MikeGrady
Member
"Pretty good"......heck, I'm flat out awesome....
Speaking of Robbie, he's a wheel man. He proved that at Little E (you all missed a show) but you all keep forgetting about the importance of set-up, like it's all about the driver and the power.
Tim,
Remember how you've said in the past you really can't always read a person by only reading what they post. That is true of Jerry. I don't "KNOW" Jerry but he's always been cool at the track. I've raced with them. I'm talking to you because of who you are.....and more importantly, what you represent.
Jerry's not the first, he just the latest. You are an equal opportunity guy, I'll give you that. You've had it out with quite a few people on here. I doubt Jerry will be the last BUT just think about, "where does it take us"?
Remember how awesome the HP thread was? It's our job to keep things like that. We can make them great or we can make them crap. Taking the last word doesn't always mean you're right.....just the most stubborn. How well does that represent you, your product, and the UAS?
Everyone here is here to talk UAS. Are you going to make it positive or negative. What you say is a direct reflection on the UAS. There's a reason Mark doesn't partake in the best means of communication for the UAS community. Are you going to perpetuate that feeling or are you going to be a positive exception to Mark beliefs?
It's what we make of it......think HP thread. I'm one to talk. I've been the hard headed guy too. I was determined not to listen to what I thought was BS without giving my perspective. I'm trying to show an extra dash of "kindness" this season. Don't expect it to last but while it does, just think about how much easier it is to deal with me.....and then look in the mirror. We all need to look in the mirror more often.....
Ho Ho Ho,
Mike
Speaking of Robbie, he's a wheel man. He proved that at Little E (you all missed a show) but you all keep forgetting about the importance of set-up, like it's all about the driver and the power.
Tim,
Remember how you've said in the past you really can't always read a person by only reading what they post. That is true of Jerry. I don't "KNOW" Jerry but he's always been cool at the track. I've raced with them. I'm talking to you because of who you are.....and more importantly, what you represent.
Jerry's not the first, he just the latest. You are an equal opportunity guy, I'll give you that. You've had it out with quite a few people on here. I doubt Jerry will be the last BUT just think about, "where does it take us"?
Remember how awesome the HP thread was? It's our job to keep things like that. We can make them great or we can make them crap. Taking the last word doesn't always mean you're right.....just the most stubborn. How well does that represent you, your product, and the UAS?
Everyone here is here to talk UAS. Are you going to make it positive or negative. What you say is a direct reflection on the UAS. There's a reason Mark doesn't partake in the best means of communication for the UAS community. Are you going to perpetuate that feeling or are you going to be a positive exception to Mark beliefs?
It's what we make of it......think HP thread. I'm one to talk. I've been the hard headed guy too. I was determined not to listen to what I thought was BS without giving my perspective. I'm trying to show an extra dash of "kindness" this season. Don't expect it to last but while it does, just think about how much easier it is to deal with me.....and then look in the mirror. We all need to look in the mirror more often.....
Ho Ho Ho,
Mike
ttownwideglider
New member
First of all to Mr. jawamaster and Mr. Taft please continue your personal confrontation in PMs to each other, the rest of us are tired of the threads being bulldosed by all this bickering, Thank you. Mr. Jawamaster we would greatly appreciate some info on the engines if you would contribute there is a lot of us listening. I am not asking for your trade secrets just some general info. Having trouble getting much info on these Chezk babies. I build a lot of hot rod Harleys for the locals around here In TTown. I have a wideglide that runs low 10s in a quarter that I built . Its a twin cam 96 and runs with the big blocks. I have a Mikuni hsr45mm on it and was wondering what a hsr42mm flat slide would do on the Jawa. I know some manifold mods would have to be done, but I can get the Mikuni for about 350-400$ new and could find a quality used one for 200-250$ compared to the Jawa carb at 1000$. Plus Mikuni parts are very easy to get and they are jettable in a very wide range. I have set them up on several 900-1200cc Sportsters and they work excellent. Will the cfm be close to what the Jawa carb produces? I cant find any info on that carb. I also know that cam set ups on the 4strokes move the usable torque up and down in the rpm band. Short duration high lift = more torque, long duration high lift = more top end hp . Does Jawa offer different cams with short and long durations and different lifts or is there a generic cam you have to work with? I saw that the more square engine has to turn 11,000 rpms to make the same torque and horsepower as the Jawa with the short stroke and the large bore at 8,500, there should be more engine life at the lower rpms so iam leaning towards this one. But what is difference in low end torque between the two models. My Harley is 4" stroke and 3 7/8 bore almost square with .640 lift ss gear drives and it raps a lot quicker that the new 4 3/8 stroke models. With the torque line real flat where does the clutch need to lock up 3,000-3500 on a engine that's going to turn 8,500 top end. If that's the case the jshaft will need to be almost 1-1 no need for the overdrive. Just use jshaft to keep clutch off of the crank. The engine mount looks like it will require some type of side plates off the jshaft plate to mount it in a laydown configuration. I like the low center of gravity and the cylinder away from the elbow banging. I also likethe fact there is no tranny to have to mess with. No cases so the engine will be lighter than the mx engines. These engines were developed to be direct drive if I remember wright. I think I saw them push start them in the European flat track races.
GeorgeHenry
New member
Now that is what kart racing is all about innovation and building your own motors.
MikeGrady
Member
Steve,
I feel 100 times better other than I have been trying to get control of my occasional migraines. I can't take the medicine anymore. It is comprised of an NSAID type drug and that's what eats the hole in my duedenum. This last time the ulcer nicked a vein.....not good....LOL.
Anyway, you have a Merry Christmas too....and a great New Year.
I have so much kindness in my heart now, I think I'm gonna melt. I better stop before I give someone on here a heart attack.....
Ho Ho Ho,
Mike
I feel 100 times better other than I have been trying to get control of my occasional migraines. I can't take the medicine anymore. It is comprised of an NSAID type drug and that's what eats the hole in my duedenum. This last time the ulcer nicked a vein.....not good....LOL.
Anyway, you have a Merry Christmas too....and a great New Year.
I have so much kindness in my heart now, I think I'm gonna melt. I better stop before I give someone on here a heart attack.....
Ho Ho Ho,
Mike
FOURTOGO
Member
Bill (Wild) Cody in Socal Ca. is the guy too talk too. http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0SO...*http://www.speedwaybikes.com/cody/cody05.htm
rainman
Member
1st I have to say that I was really surprised when I 1st saw the JAWA at the Kingdom and I think it would have won if it wouldn´t have broken or lost that bolt, so I really believe it is a monster engine, which doesn´t mean that is necessarily gonna dominate. In 2012 , and this is a fact, Yow and Buller were gone. If they wouldn´t have had that race incident Robbie Sarchett wouldn´t have won. I have a great respect for Robbie Sarchett as a driver, because it seems to me a difficult task to control all that power, and not everyone getting a JAWA is gonna be able to do this. I also have much respect for all the work to develop this engine which seems to improve any time it hits the track. But at the same time you all need to look to facts, and facts say that in the last GN Qualifying saw very close times and the JAWA wasn´t on top, so I can´t see that complete domination some pretend. Other that unreliable twin 2 strokes are very fast too, and I still have to see someone being MUCH faster than the BRC because I have never seen that. If the JAWA seems to be faster in the striaghts you still need to look at the laptime for the whole lap. How can the Sudams be obsolete while dominating qualifying in the last GN? Some of you state one thing as a fact and data doesn´t support that fact. According to that theory you would never see a kart being faster than an car or open wheeler, and at most road courses the only vehicles faster than karts are Formula 1s. Do Super Karts karts have more horse power than other vehicles? Obviously not. Variety is the greatest thing in UAS powerplants and we should use this to grow and not to destroy or hurt UAS or start new arguments. Leave your personal issues at home, leave your egos at home, respect the other drivers and enjoy the company of the competitors, which doesn´t mean not giving everything you have to win, but show respect for the rest and for yourselves.
Taft Racing
Member
Careful you sound like me. As too the premise of this thread. all the engines are just air pumps. The more you can get in the more power you can make. The Jawa has the most stroke for the current engine packages, So it can take in more air. It compresses that charge at a higher ratio so it produces more push given a correct burn. How how ever has a limited rpm band due to its long stroke.
How can other engines compete with this package. Twin 125's would produce the displacement required, But to doit they need to turn a higher rpm. 2 cycles in general out perform the 4 stroke displacement vs displacement with double the power stroke.
So the premise that a 2 cycle is old news is just folly. It delivers its power in a different format. The MX engines were developed to give a particular torque/HP given what the MX racing requires. They drive into hair pin corners then need instant response at low rpm, The 2 cycles built for those conditions are for better torque. They have lower port heights and restricted exhaust port cavitys. The 4 stroke engine designed for MX are short stroke high reving engines. They use big bore and quick high rev response to get the bike up out of the corner then quick shift to maintain that perfect power curve for their needs.
Will a engine designed to one job be perfect for a completely different format? NO. It's take some time to find what and how those engines can be altered to do the job of Dirt oval kart racing. The 250 2 stroke is more in line with the traditional perfected 125/131 kart racing engine. It won't take long to rewoek the port configuration and change pipe designs to find that perfect dirt oval performance. The key here is it doesn't take special un known science. It doesn't take just a few limited knowledgeable people to develop or alter them. They are cheep they are in massive supply.
The MX 4 stroke is also a easily found and affordable engine package. It will how ever take more expertise to find that sweet spot. It won't be so much to make the power delivery in the same manner as the Jawa. It produces a high number smooth torque band developed for speedway racing It's a great instant kart ready engine design. The MX 4 stroke will use rpm to more quickly reproduce that hp and torque.
It's all choice it's all about having choices and the competition to have bragging rights is just as important in UAS karting as who can out drive the other. Is it a better kart? a better driver? better tire program? better engine choice? It's what wins on sunday (or in our case Sat) that sells on monday. There were more than just one 450 and one Jawa at the GN.
BTW there are still a ton of industrial based engine packages that produce more than engough HP/Torque to win any UAS event. Allot of those guys have had to detune them some to get the power to the ground. It isn't all about what's new to the program.
But then again that's just my opinion.
Vintagequest
Member
Actually, supercross guys as did most all motocross racers got forced into 4 strokes because the tree hugging governments convinced motorcycle manufacturers to quit making 2 strokes. Those making 2 strokes saw the writing on the wall and had no reason to continue with 2 stroke technology. I understand that in Japan you're not even allowed to operate a 2 stroke. They can manufacture them there for export, just don't get caught running one. And about a 2 stroke at a disadvantage with such a narrow power band, having to be on the pipe? Then you're using the wrong pipe. Show me a Jawa that runs with GPX 2 strokes on karts over in Europe. That right there is one reason the UAS doesn't allow them.
I have yet to see an alcohol burning 450 bored and stroked to 490 cc's or so with 14:1 compression or better on a kart. To say a 450 can't run with a jawa is rediculous, it is very possible most of the 450s I've seen on karts are low compression on gasoline with mild cams and a little head work. I had a 488 yfz with 14:1 compression with 1mm oversized valves, ported head and a small 39mm mikuni on gasoline that would smoke 421 banshees any day. I don't know how much power it would dyno at but a 42mm carb on methanol, with some custom grind web cams, and I'm sure you could see very competitive dyno numbers with a jawa. Oh yeah as far as durability I raced the **** out of that thing for 3 years with only one piston and rings change just oil changes and timing chains and guides.
Taft Racing
Member
Your right Mitch and kinda to my point, I,m sure the 450's will approach a kart differently than the Jawa due to the shorter stroke. But then the high rev characteristics of the MX 450 a blend of it's massive torque may just make for a tremendous kart specific engine.
Were a long long ways from seeing the UAS ever turning into any single engine spec class again. IMO
Were a long long ways from seeing the UAS ever turning into any single engine spec class again. IMO