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New! Predator 212cc Ghost kart racing engine

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OVALTECH1 said:
I can’t believe this thread is still a topic …. The engine is a predator with a few other Chinese rip-off parts bolted to it that is already more costly than the ducar we already have in place setup to race… let that thing die already. I’m sure little 2 or 300 little Timmy’s dads will gladly buy them for mini bike and yard kart projects and keep the ball rolling for the harbor freight corporation.
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You've been around karting long enough to know, Saturday night racers are the considerable vast majority of the karting population. If you think only 2-300 little Timmy dads will be the only ones buying this engine, you've bumped your head. And hard!! It's coming and all you folks complaining about it are doing so for nought. Reality is, the racers mentality is to go as fast as they can for as cheap as they can. In other words the most bang for the buck. In the end, around $20-50 dollars more for an engine that 99% of the people buying it, will already have everything they need to make it race ready, that makes A LOT more HP (more than double by some credible reports) and is built, whether you like the parts or not, for a totally different reason than any "standard" industrial based engine, is going to prove to be more desirable. We've seen it time and rime again. Will it last? Who knows. Will people leave it only and just race it as is? No. That's inevitable as well. Maybe we can provide some influence, to the right people, to help curve that common issue, as well. Only time will tell. But, fact is, it's coming and coming in like a wild fire with a 30mph tail wind.
 
It's not your standard 212 predator head.
 

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Landon Engine Building said:
What is different? Looks like a hemi to me. Are the valves bigger, ports better, different chamber?

I see the valve guides are less intrusive.
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its a hemi style head. the valve stems are longer the pivots on the rockers only have an e clip on one side and rockers are slightly different automotive style spring keepers and and at least the Ducar 212 from Dyno cams has a three angle valve job and longer stiffer springs. only going by the dynocams motor but they look to be the same ducar 212
 
J'-remy said:
its a hemi style head. the valve stems are longer the pivots on the rockers only have an e clip on one side and rockers are slightly different automotive style spring keepers and and at least the Ducar 212 from Dyno cams has a three angle valve job and longer stiffer springs. only going by the dynocams motor but they look to be the same ducar 212
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The single angle valve seat on the Ghost removes the ability of these high dollar engine builders to do all the trick stuff they do to charge $200 plus dollars for a head. EVERY rules organization would do good to make ONE single 45* angle on the seat, the standard. I'd love to see money wasted on the high dollar seat and guide machines being used. And the Ducar has no where as stiff of a spring as this one.
 
That's 22.2 LBS (10.8, 7.2 add on weight AND the 4.2 add weight on I had Larry Jones make me for the Ducar spring check) of dead weight sitting on one of the Ghost springs, with the .850 dead weight gauge. It's no where close to touching.
 

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rebsfan4 said:
Many people, but mostly one, are complaining about the Predator 212 Ghost engine not having a reinforced "block" and that Harbor Freight has made false advertising claims on their packaging and the website overview. While I agree that it would be nice to have the added protecting on the actual block itself, they didn't lie about what's actually written on the packaging box or their website. Most, not all, industrial use engines come with a cast iron sleeve in the cylinder. This engine, however, is not an industrial use engine. It never was design to be. Therefore, they added the feature of the cast iron sleeve. Thus, giving everyone exactly what they have listed on the packaging and their website...a reinforced dual ball-bearing racing CYLINDER WITH A CAST IRON SLEEVE. Nothing more, nothing less. For those of you who don't understand the concept of what adding a cast iron sleeve to an aluminum engine bore actually does to the aluminum cylinder, maybe it's time you do a little reading and further educate yourselves. They didn't fill you with any false information. You've just misconstrued the information you were given.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/09/not-sexy-but-necessary/
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In that case everyone would be better off to buy the standard 212 Predator Hemi engine for $119 on sale as it has the exact same reinforced dual ball bearing racing CYLINDER WITH A CAST IRON SLEEVE as the Ghost 212. The Predator 212 Hemi also has a flat top piston.

You're beating a dead horse. The Ghost 212 engine is overpriced for what you receive and no amount of spin will ever change that. Only a Red Beard Super Fan would be onboard with paying $300 for one.
 
Don I bought one just a couple of weeks ago. They're SKU# 69730 so they're in the same box as the non-hemi 212 engines. You have to look thru the hand hold cut outs to determine which engine is in the box.
 
No dyno results yet? Is the valve train parts interchangeable with the regular Predator? After all getting replacement parts for anything Harbor Freight, from Harbor Freight is damn near impossible.
 
KentuckyFriedFixes said:
Don I bought one just a couple of weeks ago. They're SKU# 69730 so they're in the same box as the non-hemi 212 engines. You have to look thru the hand hold cut outs to determine which engine is in the box.
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this is a sign they are emptying the factory of what they have on hand. not making a effort to print up new boxes etc.
 
ChuckZZ said:
No dyno results yet? Is the valve train parts interchangeable with the regular Predator? After all getting replacement parts for anything Harbor Freight, from Harbor Freight is damn near impossible.
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no. it has little to do with the hemi predator are closer to the dynocam 212, but not by much. it's a race between the two as to witch will catch on. My guess is in the Carolinas Dynocam's ducar will get a lot of traction as you can see several tracks are running the Hobby Stock rules dynocams developed. the Burris Blue Grey has also gone to the Dynocams route (they sponsor the series). The builders will want the Dynocams Ducar as most of them get their clones and parts from dynocams anyway + the fact Dynocams has already given a little headway to blueprinting. the rest of the country I will predict a war between the ghost on the predator 224. one will have racers wanting the clone look and pipe and the other faction wanting the lower price point.
 
KentuckyFriedFixes said:
In that case everyone would be better off to buy the standard 212 Predator Hemi engine for $119 on sale as it has the exact same reinforced dual ball bearing racing CYLINDER WITH A CAST IRON SLEEVE as the Ghost 212. The Predator 212 Hemi also has a flat top piston.

You're beating a dead horse. The Ghost 212 engine is overpriced for what you receive and no amount of spin will ever change that. Only a Red Beard Super Fan would be onboard with paying $300 for one.
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I'm beating a dead horse but your the one on here comparing two engines that are different in build and have completely different intended uses. I'm not convinced you really understand what it is you're comparing.

Again, how much experience to do you have with kart racing and building engines for kart racing? If you had even a tad bit, you'd understand everything your saying, as far as comparing the two, in the manner you are, has ZERO to do with their use in karting. ZERO...... The two aren't meant to even be ran in the same class.
 
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ChuckZZ said:
No dyno results yet? Is the valve train parts interchangeable with the regular Predator? After all getting replacement parts for anything Harbor Freight, from Harbor Freight is damn near impossible.
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My two engine builder sources are telling me a little over 12hp out if the box. I can tell, from what I'm seeing on the tear down of the one I have, there's a lot there to gain. The key is going to be people having patience not to Jack with it and let Harbor Freight work things out at the factory.
 
J'-remy said:
no. it has little to do with the hemi predator are closer to the dynocam 212, but not by much. it's a race between the two as to witch will catch on. My guess is in the Carolinas Dynocam's ducar will get a lot of traction as you can see several tracks are running the Hobby Stock rules dynocams developed. the Burris Blue Grey has also gone to the Dynocams route (they sponsor the series). The builders will want the Dynocams Ducar as most of them get their clones and parts from dynocams anyway + the fact Dynocams has already given a little headway to blueprinting. the rest of the country I will predict a war between the ghost on the predator 224. one will have racers wanting the clone look and pipe and the other faction wanting the lower price point.
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The first thing everyone is going to have to understand is you cant compare the two. They're not the same. They're not the same in or out of the box. They're not the same on the dyno. They won't be the same on the track. If a track has a three kart minimum rule to make a class and 3 people each showed up with these two DIFFERENT engines, there would be two different classes. The question that will be answered by kart racers across the country will be do they want tp be in a really cheap class and go really slow or do they wamt to be in a class that costs a tad bit more but has the potential to be twice the hp from the factory.
 
not comparing the two just curious witch platform will take off. I'm running clone for now and don't care except i think soon the builders will be building 212s instead of 196s soon.
 
rebsfan4 said:
I'm beating a dead horse but your the one on here comparing two engines that are different in build and have completely different intended uses. I'm not convinced you really understand what it is you're comparing.

Again, how much experience to do you have with kart racing and building engines for kart racing? If you had even a tad bit, you'd understand everything your saying, as far as comparing the two, in the manner you are, has ZERO to do with their use in karting. ZERO...... The two aren't meant to even be ran in the same class.
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It's interesting that instead of discussion of any one of the multiple engines, you again persist with a logical fallacy argument. This one would be the same Ad Hominem attack as you tried before. I don't participate in logical fallacies as they're just that. If you wish to have an adult discussion about the engines and their features please proceed.
 
KentuckyFriedFixes said:
It's interesting that instead of discussion of any one of the multiple engines, you again persist with a logical fallacy argument. This one would be the same Ad Hominem attack as you tried before. I don't participate in logical fallacies as they're just that. If you wish to have an adult discussion about the engines and their features please proceed.
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In order to do that, you have to first understand these engines have ZERO reason to be compared to one another. You have to first understand these engines have completely different intended purposes. You have to understand why or why not a kart racer would choose one or the other. If I'm being honest, I don't think you understand any of those things.

Now, if you just talking about an "engine build" that's a totally different subject.

As far as the whole Ad Hominem and fallacies thing, I'm not arguing against anything. I'm simply saying you're on here comparing two engine to one another and trying to convince people of the better but. Again. These engineshave ZERO reasoning to. E compared to one another to even suggest which one is a better buy. As for the fallacies, I'm not the one presenting their ideas based on the comparison of two engines that nothing to do with one another. It would appear it seems to be your own "mis-beliefs" that have you arguing against the Ghost engine, in favor of the ducar engine.

So answer me this one very simple question......

Would you take a Ducar 212 and a Predator Ghost straight out of the box, mount them on a kart, run them heads up and put $1000 dollars on the kart to win that had the Ducar?
 
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rebsfan4 said:
In order to do that, you have to first understand these engines have ZERO reason to be compared to one another. You have to first understand these engines have completely different intended purposes. You have to understand why or why not a kart racer would choose one or the other. If I'm being honest, I don't think you understand any of those things.

Now, if you just talking about an "engine build" that's a totally different subject.

As far as the whole Ad Hominem and fallacies thing, I'm not arguing against anything. I'm simply saying you're on here comparing two engine to one another and trying to convince people of the better buy whe doing so based on zero reasoning that has to do with either of these engines because of the fact that aren't meant to be the same or even close to it. As for the fallacies, I'm not the one presenting their ideas based on the comparison of two engines that nothing to do with one another. It would appear it seems to be your own "mis-beliefs" that have you arguing against the Ghost engine, in favor of the ducar engine.

So answer me this one very simple question......

Would you take a Ducar 212 and a Predator Ghost straight out of the box, mount them on a kart, run them heads up and put $1000 dollars on the kart to win that had the Ducar?
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My entire argument is that the Ghost 212 is overpriced and not worth $300. It has more in common with the stock Predator 212 Hemi engine than anything else. I will admit the camshaft in the Ghost 212 has a bit more lift than a stock camshaft. But again, the same $50 camshaft in a Predator 212 Hemi would yield better results at about half the price of the Ghost 212. Again, it's over priced and over hyped for what it actually is.

As far as bolting them on out of the box, I personally wouldn't run the Ghost 212 with that cast iron flywheel. If the Ducar 212 was RPM matched to the Ghost 212 engine, I don't gamble but I'd count on the Ducar 212 to win, it comes with the lighter PVL flywheel while the Ghost is slinging cast iron.
 
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