New! Predator 212cc Ghost kart racing engine

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not comparing the two just curious witch platform will take off. I'm running clone for now and don't care except i think soon the builders will be building 212s instead of 196s soon.
Unfortunately, that "soon" has come and gone in the deep south. These folks are paying $650 and up for built predator 212's now. NOBODY runs predators put of the box around here. As of now, we're offering the Ducar 212 class with the Dynocams rules. As expected, I'm already getting pushback from people wanting to remove the stock fuel tanks and exhaust. I won't back down, so no one commits to it because they cant get their way with me. So now we have the Ghost out there. And what I'm sure will be much to the chagrin of Mr. Fried, kart racers here are already willing to spend the little extra money, put the parts they already have, on it and race with almost twice the hp of a box stock 6.5 engine. I know 5 who already have them ordered. All 5 of them were among the ones who gave pushback on the ducar straight out of the box. I'm not shocked by that.
 
My entire argument is that the Ghost 212 is overpriced and not worth $300. It has more in common with the stock Predator 212 Hemi engine than anything else. I will admit the camshaft in the Ghost 212 has a bit more lift than a stock camshaft. But again, the same $50 camshaft in a Predator 212 Hemi would yield better results at about half the price of the Ghost 212. Again, it's over priced and over hyped for what it actually is.

As far as bolting them on out of the box, I personally wouldn't run the Ghost 212 with that cast iron flywheel. If the Ducar 212 was RPM matched to the Ghost 212 engine, I don't gamble but I'd count on the Ducar 212 to win, it comes with the lighter PVL flywheel while the Ghost is slinging cast iron.
Again, it's a real simple question....it doesn't take theoretical analogies to squirm your way out of the only logical answer you could give and it not be a lie ......if you took the two engines straight out of the box, as they are intended to do, bolted them on a kart and raced them, as they are each intended to be raced, which one are you betting on, provided someone gave you the $1000 just to place a bet with. It doesn't matter what you would want do to either of them, because neither of them are intended to do anything other than race as they are. So pick one to win. Which one is going to have more power? Which one is going to go faster on the track? It doesn't matter what your opinion of either engine is. That's not going to be a deciding factor to a kart racer. They're not going to care if you don't like it personally. I'm still curious as to the amount of experience you have with karting and kart racers. You've avoided that question repeatedly. Which brings me to Mt entire point of your arguments here........

And my point has been, your arguments about the Ghost in comparison to the Ducar is pointless here. This is a kart racing forum. Kart racers are going to buy this engine regardless of your opinion on it. You're not going to be the influencer you strive to be. Have fun trying to stop the Ghost from doing what it's going to do. There's an old analogy about pee and wind. Have fun with it. 🤣🤣
 
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Again, it's a real simple question....it doesn't take theoretical analogies to squirm your way out of the only logical answer you could give and it not be a lie ......if you took the two engines straight out of the box, as they are intended to do, bolted them on a kart and raced them, as they are each intended to be raced, which one are you betting on, provided someone gave you the $1000 just to place a bet with. It doesn't matter what you would want do to either of them, because neither of them are intended to do anything other than race as they are. So pick one to win. Which one is going to have more power? Which one is going to go faster on the track? It doesn't matter what your opinion of either engine is. That's not going to be a deciding factor to a kart racer. They're not going to care if you don't like it personally. I'm still curious as to the amount of experience you have with karting and kart racers. You've avoided that question repeatedly. Which brings me to Mt entire point of your arguments here........

And my point has been, your arguments about the Ghost in comparison to the Ducar is pointless here. This is a kart racing forum. Kart racers are going to buy this engine regardless of your opinion on it. You're not going to be the influencer you strive to be. Have fun trying to stop the Ghost from doing what it's going to do. There's an old analogy about pee and wind. Have fun with it. 🤣🤣
Straw Man
A straw man argument attacks a different subject rather than the topic being discussed — often a more extreme version of the counter argument. The purpose of this misdirection is to make one's position look stronger than it actually is.
 
Straw Man
A straw man argument attacks a different subject rather than the topic being discussed — often a more extreme version of the counter argument. The purpose of this misdirection is to make one's position look stronger than it actually is.
I'm pretty sure I've stuck to the same topic since you decided to give your expert opinion on the comparison of two completely different engines. Make sure you wear rubber boots on those extra windy days.
 
What is the Ducar 212 intended for?

What is the Ghost 212 intended for?

Do they / would they ever compete in the same class?

I’ll admit I’m kinda a noob when it comes to classes and rules, (as are many others I suspect), so to understand this argument, and to make educated statements, and to be able to draw a conclusion there are a few basic questions that need to be answered.

If these two engine were to compete in the same class, that would justify comparison between them, if they should never see each other on the track, than comparing them is indeed pointless.

So honestly, what are the answers to these few basic questions?

Remember this thread will be around for the foreseeable future, and will likely attract the attention of many people, (likely newer people to the sport), so we should try to make it as productive as possible.
 
What is the Ducar 212 intended for?

What is the Ghost 212 intended for?

Do they / would they ever compete in the same class?

I’ll admit I’m kinda a noob when it comes to classes and rules, (as are many others I suspect), so to understand this argument, and to make educated statements, and to be able to draw a conclusion there are a few basic questions that need to be answered.

If these two engine were to compete in the same class, that would justify comparison between them, if they should never see each other on the track, than comparing them is indeed pointless.

So honestly, what are the answers to these few basic questions?

Remember this thread will be around for the foreseeable future, and will likely attract the attention of many people, (likely newer people to the sport), so we should try to make it as productive as possible.
The Ducar 212, for all intent and purposes was designed to be a reliable replacement to the Predator in the "Box stock / Hobby Stock" class. By reliable, I mean more durable block configuration, better flywheel, as well as more consistency where parts are concerned. Particularly where tech is concerned. They are, according to the questions Randy at dynocams has answered for me, a single source production engine. Meaning they are produced and assembled at one factory. With all that said, the engine by design is still an engine that can be put to use, as is, on any piece of equipment that utilizes a horizontal shaft 6.5 hp ohv engine.

The Ghost, like it or not, is Harbor Freights version of the Lo206. Nothing more nothing less. It's their engine, for all intent and purposes, designed for sprint/road course type racing. Will it find its way into dirt oval racing? It's inevitable. That's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on who you talk to. And trust me when I tell you, Harbor Freight is watching. So if people hope to have a more consistent product in the future, positive feedback and SOLUTIONS to problems with inconsistency is what's needed. Not a bunch of naysayers looking to Garner subscribers and likes on Facebook and YouTube. Example.......Consistent rod stroke, consistent cam centerline, consistent cam grinds, hardened cam lobes for durability, consistent lengths and weights on valve train parts. As we all know this is what we don't have in the current out of the box Predator utility engine we have now. I'm telling you all, the best thing people could ever do is talk, on these threads and Facebook, just like they were talking straight to the powers to be at Harbor Freight.

Will they compete in the same class? No. They aren't designed to. If a track had enough karts show up with each of these engines on them to make a class, they would be two SEPERATE classes. The ONLY things these two engines have in common is they are meant to be ran just as they are produced. You're not suppose to change any part (external or internal) for the purpose of performance enhancements. The ONLY thing you're allowed to do is replace parts with the same OEM parts, for maintenance purposes.

This whole comparing the two engines to o e another, other than, on track or on the dyno, is moot and pointless.
 
There's you tube video that breaks them down
No video out there breaks them down as they need to be. The info needed is every possible mic'ed measurement and weight of every part of the engine. Just taking it apart and saying this thing is good or not good does nothing for what needs to be known. I want be doing a video but I will be sharing all the info I have gathered, as it pertains to a complete tech of the engine. The only thing I don't have is some numbers on parts of the carb. As soon as a get my new pin gauge sets in I'll have those numbers as well. I'm in the process of typing it all up not. What's need Ed is a data base of all the parts, so as to shorten the learning curve we've had to go through with the current predator engine in use.
 
. So if people hope to have a more consistent product in the future, positive feedback and SOLUTIONS to problems with inconsistency is what's needed. Not a bunch of naysayers looking to Garner subscribers and likes on Facebook and YouTube. Example.......Consistent rod stroke, consistent cam centerline, consistent cam grinds, hardened cam lobes for durability, consistent lengths and weights on valve train parts.
Do you have any inside information that leads you to believe there was any effort for such consistency? As rules are established, and the more precise the rules, the greater the need to completely disassemble, check for compliance and reassemble..... blueprint. Instantly this $449.98 motor costs at least $1000.00. I am not badmouthing this particular platform, it is inevitable with any new engine. Once again karting will become more divided with more classes and smaller fields per class. Exactly what happened when clones were introduced.
 
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Honestly I can't believe they went to all the trouble of selecting what they think is the best combination of components available, actually promote it as a race engine, and put that crap flyapartwheel on it. I smell lawsuit!
 
Do you have any inside information that leads you to believe there was any effort for such consistency? As rules are established, and the more precise the rules, the greater the need to completely disassemble, check for compliance and reassemble..... blueprint. Instantly this $449.98 motor costs at least $1000.00. I am not badmouthing this particular platform, it is inevitable with any new engine. Once again karting will become more divided with more classes and smaller fields per class. Exactly what happened when clones were first introduced.
I'm not at liberty to discuss with you what I do know. Everyone has the exact same ability I've got to talk to someone. I can tell you one thing for sure...all the negative bs is going in one ear and out the other and those people will NOT be given the time of day when it comes to communications. Take this to the bank.......constructive suggests are key here. It's just that simple.
 
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Honestly I can't believe they went to all the trouble of selecting what they think is the best combination of components available, actually promote it as a race engine, and put that crap flyapartwheel on it. I smell lawsuit!
So tell me, out of all the kart tracks racing across America, with thousands of karters making laps every weekend, where are all the videos of flywheels flying all over the place? Bigfoot must have them all in his possession. Let's be real here......99% of the flywheels that have come apart, in the past, have done so because some moron has tried to manipulate the position of the magnet on the flywheel. You people don't want to here that but it's just the truth of the matter. This engine is being ran, miles upon miles on sprint kart tracks out in California right now and have had zero issue. I swear, kart "racers" and engine "builders" whine and coMplain about EVERYTHING.
 
So tell me, out of all the kart tracks racing across America, with thousands of karters making laps every weekend, where are all the videos of flywheels flying all over the place? Bigfoot must have them all in his possession. Let's be real here......99% of the flywheels that have come apart, in the past, have done so because some moron has tried to manipulate the position of the magnet on the flywheel. You people don't want to here that but it's just the truth of the matter. This engine is being ran, miles upon miles on sprint kart tracks out in California right now and have had zero issue. I swear, kart "racers" and engine "builders" whine and coMplain about EVERYTHING.
To assume the flywheel is junk simply because it is cast iron is premature. Flathead flywheels were turned to 7000 rpm for years. I bet there are some out there that are 30 and 40 years old without problem. On the other hand who really wants to trust any Chinese product without skepticism.
 
So tell me, out of all the kart tracks racing across America, with thousands of karters making laps every weekend, where are all the videos of flywheels flying all over the place? Bigfoot must have them all in his possession. Let's be real here......99% of the flywheels that have come apart, in the past, have done so because some moron has tried to manipulate the position of the magnet on the flywheel. You people don't want to here that but it's just the truth of the matter. This engine is being ran, miles upon miles on sprint kart tracks out in California right now and have had zero issue. I swear, kart "racers" and engine "builders" whine and coMplain about EVERYTHIN
So tell me, out of all the kart tracks racing across America, with thousands of karters making laps every weekend, where are all the videos of flywheels flying all over the place? Bigfoot must have them all in his possession. Let's be real here......99% of the flywheels that have come apart, in the past, have done so because some moron has tried to manipulate the position of the magnet on the flywheel. You people don't want to here that but it's just the truth of the matter. This engine is being ran, miles upon miles on sprint kart tracks out in California right now and have had zero issue. I swear, kart "racers" and engine "builders" whine and coMplain about EVERYTHING.
And they use clone cast flywheels?
 
To assume the flywheel is junk simply because it is cast iron is premature. Flathead flywheels were turned to 7000 rpm for years. I bet there are some out there that are 30 and 40 years old without problem. On the other hand who really wants to trust any Chinese product without skepticism.
There is a world of difference between a fh flywheel and this crap, I have seen them fail on generators and pumps in the rental industry and it ain't pretty.
 
So tell me, out of all the kart tracks racing across America, with thousands of karters making laps every weekend, where are all the videos of flywheels flying all over the place? Bigfoot must have them all in his possession. Let's be real here......99% of the flywheels that have come apart, in the past, have done so because some moron has tried to manipulate the position of the magnet on the flywheel. You people don't want to here that but it's just the truth of the matter. This engine is being ran, miles upon miles on sprint kart tracks out in California right now and have had zero issue. I swear, kart "racers" and engine "builders" whine and coMplain about EVERYTHING.
And they use the cast clone flywheel?
 
And they use the cast clone flywheel?
If by "They" you mean the kart out in California, them yes. The cast clone flywheel is also in use all over the country. They run them every weekend all over the south turning them over 6000 without fail. Watch them all the time. Gonna see them again tonight.
 
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There is a world of difference between a fh flywheel and this crap, I have seen them fail on generators and pumps in the rental industry and it ain't pretty.
It's always amazed me at how many people "have seen" them fail, yet with all the cameras on all the phones across the country, we have how many videos of on track failures?
 
Pretty sure the sanctioning bodies don't allow the use of the cast clone flywheel. You don't know as much as you need to. I have made many videos of them failing during r&d when the clones first came to karting, enough that it was banned and the aftermarket choices made legal. The pvl was what we went with, why do you think the Dyno 212 ducar comes standard with it. There are real liability issues involved here
 
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