racing promotor
Moderator
Just calculate 40 ft radius, it's little less but I stepped it off I'm giving you the close measurements, the fact you calculate a lot more tells you it's small let me guess off the top of my head your real close 1.9 ".
Does stagger depend on driving style
- Thread starter bricklayer653
- Start date
racing promotor
Moderator
7 & 10 is what most run on a triton.
MHSWildcat
Member
Just curious but, No one has asked what kind of rear track (center LR to center RR) is being run. How far the LR is spaced away from the chassis.
I do agree that by pinning the LF tire and allowing the chassis to pivot around that he can roll the corner with less stagger than most. (JMHO)
Driving style, personal feel and chassis flex are variables that factor into this as well. Many good theories are here, lots of food for thought
during down time. I used less stagger than most in extra heavy but my cross was at least 10% less than what he stated. I was at 52-55%.
Caster was also 6 and 8 degrees (yes older chassis) and I think we are not considering how much the extra caster is unloading the rear tires.
I do agree that by pinning the LF tire and allowing the chassis to pivot around that he can roll the corner with less stagger than most. (JMHO)
Driving style, personal feel and chassis flex are variables that factor into this as well. Many good theories are here, lots of food for thought
during down time. I used less stagger than most in extra heavy but my cross was at least 10% less than what he stated. I was at 52-55%.
Caster was also 6 and 8 degrees (yes older chassis) and I think we are not considering how much the extra caster is unloading the rear tires.
bricklayer653
Member
Rear width is rr is 1/8 to 3/16 off frame left rear is 3/4 off it is around 39 inches wide
racing promotor
Moderator
The 39" is outside of tread to outside of tread.
racing promotor
Moderator
Confused you say by pinning the LF you meant LR ? and right now it's not pinned on the LR.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
Upon closer examination, I find that a 40 foot radius might not be that far off for a 400 foot track with short straights. I also find that, 1.5 inches of stagger to be very very close. I used 33", center to center, for the rear tires. You know, with this calculation I make, a difference in center to center of the tires can make a difference.
The track I drew up is 80 feet between the straightaways, measured from the inside lines, and 25 feet wide, with 80 foot diameter turns. (40 foot radius)
The track I drew up is 80 feet between the straightaways, measured from the inside lines, and 25 feet wide, with 80 foot diameter turns. (40 foot radius)
racing promotor
Moderator
Either your using different math, or your measurement being center to center makes it different, per every chart I've ever seen flat track, corner radius of the LR at 50 ft, perfect rear stagger is 1.722, so a 40 ft radius of the LR would be more yet not closer to 1.5". Or are you compensating for the center of the turn not being a perfect radius as no track turns are ?
paulkish
old fart
I'm going to say I think I see his thought process. maybe as I like to say
We will say the LF starts you into the corner and I think I can think about it if I want by then saying it then becomes a matter of how well the LF stays engaged with the track or say "pinned". With that thinking I could then relate stuff to how well I kept the LF working with the track through the corner. Don't we often think about three wheeling thru a corner mainly on the LF, RF and RR with the magic balance being about the RF/RR? And then add to the picture instead of how use you still get from the LR. ... so why not be able to think about how keeping the LF engaged effects things even thinking about rotating around the pinned LF.
... maybe??????
we all don't think about things in the same way and i'm looking at it as refreshing to see a new way of seeing things.
... Al's total number way don't count. ...
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
40 foot inside radius track, 25 feet wide. I calculate the left rear tire being 1 foot off the quadrant of the turn and sweeping out to within 50 inches of the wall. That's the inside left tire. Calculating a 34 inch wide rear track (center to center) and approaching within 12 inches of the wall. The turning radius would be 60.7 inches. (Close) The software says the stagger would be 1.44 inches.
Of course nobody wants to measure center to center of the rear tires and nobody wants to measure the radius of the turn. Or the width of the track. I I'm surprised when somebody says they're on a 1/8 mile track but they give no other information.
There are devices for measuring distances, both turns and straights, you'd think someone would have purchased one by now. Amazon has them.
paulkish
old fart
Thanks Al
But I see you fudging your numbers to fit the situation. Bricklayer told us 39"s and if we are to look at the validity of your spread sheet, what do you get for stagger with 39"s not the 33 your telling us about.
Your saying it makes a difference do then give us real numbers from your spread sheet per the input you get for us to look at.
If you fudge the input it makes me think your doing it just to look good, which I don't want to think you are.
The only thing which will give us real output is if your use 'real' input.
thanks again, i'm NOT trying to get on your case only looking for real numbers to see the viability of your spread sheet
paulkish
old fart
Again the track width is 39 and NOT 34
racing promotor
Moderator
There not talking the same measurement the OP ( Bricklayer Paul ) is meaning 39" outside of tread to outside of tread, Al uses center to center of tire which would be less than 39" but not 34".
racing promotor
Moderator
I wasn't sure if that's what he meant, or since OP mentioned pinning the LR if it was a misprint. After talking to OP and thinking about it more I can somewhat see the LR not being pinned causing the RR to be somewhat under loaded on entry thus the loose in " MAYBE "I'm going to say I think I see his thought process. maybe as I like to say
We will say the LF starts you into the corner and I think I can think about it if I want by then saying it then becomes a matter of how well the LF stays engaged with the track or say "pinned". With that thinking I could then relate stuff to how well I kept the LF working with the track through the corner. Don't we often think about three wheeling thru a corner mainly on the LF, RF and RR with the magic balance being about the RF/RR? And then add to the picture instead of how use you still get from the LR. ... so why not be able to think about how keeping the LF engaged effects things even thinking about rotating around the pinned LF.
... maybe??????
we all don't think about things in the same way and i'm looking at it as refreshing to see a new way of seeing things.
... Al's total number way don't count. ...
paulkish
old fart
Thank you for the information. Either way I hope he's not fudging input to suit his needs and not what the spread sheet brings us.
It's Al and I can't imagine he would do such a thing so all i'm asking for is output per numbers given.
Maybe you all can give Al a number to work with that is center to center?
Al and I may have issues from the past but I am NOT doubting his integrity.
racing promotor
Moderator
With 39" width outside of tread to outside of tread, center to center would be right handy 7.75" less which would be 31.25 "
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
I get different numbers when using outside to outside versus center to center. They're not that much different, but different. If I use outside to outside, the inside track is shorter and the outside track is longer, skewing the calculation a little.
I know it's hard to do (LOL) but why not center to center. Tell me, are the inside and outside tire always the same width?
I know it's hard to do (LOL) but why not center to center. Tell me, are the inside and outside tire always the same width?
racing promotor
Moderator
Use 31.25 " center to center your normal way, what do you get ?
racing promotor
Moderator
NO the inside and outside tires are NEVER the same width, at least with normal dirt oval racing.
paulkish
old fart
Al, what your asking for measurements is not viable BECAUSE, dirt racing the inside of the RR tire is kept at a minimum off the frame. The center is adjusted in and out Al depending on tire width. Also Al different combinations of rim offset are use differently between the left and right rears. Yes if you need to turn both left and right center to center is a good reference. But when your only turning left though center to center is a reference it's an incomplete reference at best. That is why outside to outside is used for a reference and not center to center.
Al some things are different between oval and sprint and this is one of them. I hope this adds some understanding of oval racing for you.