WAKE UPTrack Promotors

Chipg56 said:
No rules means no cheating. Establishing rules regarding measurements means every motor needs to be checked (and therefore massaged) prior to racing. Any poorly manufactured engine, weather it be the flathead, clone, predator or the next cheap engine down the road must and will follow this path. Parts will need to be checked, swapped, re-machined, or discarded. Like it or not this will cost money. Manufacturing and assembly consistency, from the factory, is what makes the LO206 the best box stock engine long term.
Click to expand...
But that $600 price tag isn't doing any "budget" racer any favors.
 
jaymancds said:
But that $600 price tag isn't doing any "budget" racer any favors.
Click to expand...
But what, after rules are established, and every motor is checked prior to racing, will be cheaper? When we started racing in 1999 flattys were already around $800.00. Ready to race @ $600 in 2021 is a bargain. Builders do charge more for preparation but that includes things that the racer needs to learn by themselves anyway....and Briggs has the literature and videos that develops those skills.
 
Last edited:
Chipg56 said:
But what, after rules are established, and every motor is checked prior to racing will be cheaper? When we started racing in 1999 flattys were already around $800.00. Ready to race @ $600 in 2021 is a bargain. Builders do charge more for preparation but that includes things that the racer needs to learn by themselves anyway....and Briggs has the literature and videos that develops those skills.
Click to expand...
Honest question, I am not familiar with the 206 at all, do the 206's need regular/constant carb tuning and adjustments? How often do they need to be freshened up?
 
Chipg56 said:
No rules means no cheating. Establishing rules regarding measurements means every motor needs to be checked (and therefore massaged) prior to racing. Any poorly manufactured engine, weather it be the flathead, clone, predator or the next cheap engine down the road must and will follow this path. Parts will need to be checked, swapped, re-machined, or discarded. Like it or not this will cost money. Manufacturing and assembly consistency, from the factory, is what makes the LO206 the best box stock engine long term.
Click to expand...

No experience with it but the animal M series looks like a nice piece race purpose motor. Not suggesting anything just seems nice
 
Can we just draw a couple numbers and swap the top 2-3 with whichever numbers we draw? Keeps the grudge claims down and if you want to spend money to cheat one up you will be racing against it shortly.
 
jaymancds said:
Honest question, I am not familiar with the 206 at all, do the 206's need regular/constant carb tuning and adjustments? How often do they need to be freshened up?
Click to expand...
No, it is a very good carb. It is subject to clogging if left with fuel in it during long periods of inactivity, just like any other carb. You can see lots of posts concerning fine tuning but that is not indicative of being problematic. I have lots of experience with clones in non racing applications and the fuel bowel is made of cheap poorly plated steel and rusts really easy. As far as being freshened up depending on usage of course, the head should probably be done once per year, the lower end lasts a long time, years.
 
Last edited:
jaymancds said:
And if you blow up my motor?
Click to expand...
you spend a $100 and go get a new one after the swap you no longer have rights to said motor, you are now owner of the swapped motor. I used the draw the number so guys cant sandbag to the back and try to swap a junk motor with the leaders if you swapped the last 2-3 in the field.
 
racinnut15xm said:
you spend a $100 and go get a new one after the swap you no longer have rights to said motor, you are now owner of the swapped motor. I used the draw the number so guys cant sandbag to the back and try to swap a junk motor with the leaders if you swapped the last 2-3 in the field.
Click to expand...
I'm going to play devils advocate here a little bit, not arguing but posing legitimate questions that come to mind about this. In my predator, I run 13oz. of Mobil 1 5w-20. I change it every race. This is may not be the "best" but it works for me and I have yet to have any issues with it. When I checked it over this off-season it was clean as could be. I am very, very particular about maintenance, cleaning, etc.

I get drawn.

I then give my motor, that is in basically perfect condition, properly tuned, well maintained, etc. to another competitor. He/she then gives me their motor, which may or may not have been being maintained like mine. It may or may not be tuned properly, may not have had the regular oil changes, health checks, etc.

Am I supposed to just be happy with this? I'm not even talking about what may or may not have been done to their engine machining wise. I'm just talking about simple things like maintenance. Personally, I check every oil change for metal, I bore scope the cylinder from time to time, and at the end of the year I open the case to look everything over. I am within the rules, whatever they may be, and now I am getting handed an engine that I have no idea the history of? I am just supposed to accept that the engine I am receiving is as good as the one I am giving?
 
jaymancds said:
I'm going to play devils advocate here a little bit, not arguing but posing legitimate questions that come to mind about this. In my predator, I run 13oz. of Mobil 1 5w-20. I change it every race. This is may not be the "best" but it works for me and I have yet to have any issues with it. When I checked it over this off-season it was clean as could be. I am very, very particular about maintenance, cleaning, etc.

I get drawn.

I then give my motor, that is in basically perfect condition, properly tuned, well maintained, etc. to another competitor. He/she then gives me their motor, which may or may not have been being maintained like mine. It may or may not be tuned properly, may not have had the regular oil changes, health checks, etc.

Am I supposed to just be happy with this? I'm not even talking about what may or may not have been done to their engine machining wise. I'm just talking about simple things like maintenance. Personally, I check every oil change for metal, I bore scope the cylinder from time to time, and at the end of the year I open the case to look everything over. I am within the rules, whatever they may be, and now I am getting handed an engine that I have no idea the history of? I am just supposed to accept that the engine I am receiving is as good as the one I am giving?
Click to expand...

Raise good points I agree simply stated
 
jaymancds said:
I'm going to play devils advocate here a little bit, not arguing but posing legitimate questions that come to mind about this. In my predator, I run 13oz. of Mobil 1 5w-20. I change it every race. This is may not be the "best" but it works for me and I have yet to have any issues with it. When I checked it over this off-season it was clean as could be. I am very, very particular about maintenance, cleaning, etc.

I get drawn.

I then give my motor, that is in basically perfect condition, properly tuned, well maintained, etc. to another competitor. He/she then gives me their motor, which may or may not have been being maintained like mine. It may or may not be tuned properly, may not have had the regular oil changes, health checks, etc.

Am I supposed to just be happy with this? I'm not even talking about what may or may not have been done to their engine machining wise. I'm just talking about simple things like maintenance. Personally, I check every oil change for metal, I bore scope the cylinder from time to time, and at the end of the year I open the case to look everything over. I am within the rules, whatever they may be, and now I am getting handed an engine that I have no idea the history of? I am just supposed to accept that the engine I am receiving is as good as the one I am giving?
Click to expand...
You are welcome to go on craigslist and sell it as a running motor and go buy a new one, or put it on the yard kart rototiller or stick it on the shelf.

The thing is these are only 100 bucks(if you arent cheating them up), probably only out 50bucks if you sell it and now you've got a fresh one. A guy will take a chance on sneaking a $500-600 cheater motor through tech, he's less likely to spend that same money if he's guaranteed to swap it away when he wins. Some have enough money they wouldnt care but majority are racing karts because it is affordable and racing and not having to remortgage the house is fun.

Again the point of the draw is to keep someone from purposely sandbagging, no hurt feelings from grudge claims, no complaints about he's cheating because the winners motor just got passed to someone out of the top 3.

Doubt any track will adopt it but it was just a thought.
 
jaymancds said:
I'm going to play devils advocate here a little bit, not arguing but posing legitimate questions that come to mind about this. In my predator, I run 13oz. of Mobil 1 5w-20. I change it every race. This is may not be the "best" but it works for me and I have yet to have any issues with it. When I checked it over this off-season it was clean as could be. I am very, very particular about maintenance, cleaning, etc.

I get drawn.

I then give my motor, that is in basically perfect condition, properly tuned, well maintained, etc. to another competitor. He/she then gives me their motor, which may or may not have been being maintained like mine. It may or may not be tuned properly, may not have had the regular oil changes, health checks, etc.

Am I supposed to just be happy with this? I'm not even talking about what may or may not have been done to their engine machining wise. I'm just talking about simple things like maintenance. Personally, I check every oil change for metal, I bore scope the cylinder from time to time, and at the end of the year I open the case to look everything over. I am within the rules, whatever they may be, and now I am getting handed an engine that I have no idea the history of? I am just supposed to accept that the engine I am receiving is as good as the one I am giving?
Click to expand...
I would not be interested in running that program. Track should just buy the motors and have a yearly fee or charge a little more for entry..
 
racinnut15xm said:
Can we just draw a couple numbers and swap the top 2-3 with whichever numbers we draw? Keeps the grudge claims down and if you want to spend money to cheat one up you will be racing against it shortly.
Click to expand...
we did this.. top 3 finishers every other week. everyone stops on the front stretch in finishing order. top 3 draw 1 chip each.. what ever number they pulled (finishing position ).. that's who they swapped motors with.. you keep your top plate. everything else is a stock component. if you refuse to swap, you loose your points for the night. and if its a trophy night. you don't get that either.. no pay out class. ever! goal is to give out prizes at the end of the year for those who hang in all season.
 
Local track here did a buy from them new unopened and sealed there you buy from them it's your motor.

Seems pretty legit
 
racinnut15xm said:
i think part of the allure of the predator is it doesn't matter if you live in oklahoma, california or north carolina, you can go to harbor and buy one. I've been in karts almost 3 years and never heard of the Jimmy sims group and selling the sealed clones. i have heard of BSP selling them but they arent $100
Click to expand...
But that's not the reality.
If you live in Oklahoma, California, or North Carolina, I doubt there are more than a couple tracks where you can run the same engine competitively and legally. Each track/series has adopted their own rule sets for them. Some have a claim, some do not, some use a governor, some do not, some use the stock air box, some do not, some have drum clutch rules, some do not. The Predator has already evolved in much the same progression as the clone. It started out as a cheap alternative, then quickly escalated. Without any rules, they are all stock appearings...just some have a lot more money spent inside of them.

Jimmy Sims is the founder/father of BSP - he has since passed.
 
jaymancds said:
I'm going to play devils advocate here a little bit, not arguing but posing legitimate questions that come to mind about this. In my predator, I run 13oz. of Mobil 1 5w-20. I change it every race. This is may not be the "best" but it works for me and I have yet to have any issues with it. When I checked it over this off-season it was clean as could be. I am very, very particular about maintenance, cleaning, etc.

I get drawn.

I then give my motor, that is in basically perfect condition, properly tuned, well maintained, etc. to another competitor. He/she then gives me their motor, which may or may not have been being maintained like mine. It may or may not be tuned properly, may not have had the regular oil changes, health checks, etc.

Am I supposed to just be happy with this? I'm not even talking about what may or may not have been done to their engine machining wise. I'm just talking about simple things like maintenance. Personally, I check every oil change for metal, I bore scope the cylinder from time to time, and at the end of the year I open the case to look everything over. I am within the rules, whatever they may be, and now I am getting handed an engine that I have no idea the history of? I am just supposed to accept that the engine I am receiving is as good as the one I am giving?
Click to expand...
you are absolutely correct...
I too keep my motors clean as can be. this is the nature of the "claim" rule. you either loose your motor completely for a price. usually not enough to make anyone happy. or you go home with someone else motor (good or bad). the only and soul purpose to this activity is to keep people from dropping $$ in motors for a "stock" class.. all the more reason it should be a no money class.
 
more people should claim motors. especially in the Carolinas. They all cheat and they all know it. I have talked to both racers (including pros) and all the engine builders in North and South Carolina and they all told me what they do and how much it cost. some advertise it on their sites (I bought a clone in case you were wondering and no i don't have a cheated up predator). problem is everybody cheats so they are all worried it will happen to them next week. If You are really legit you shouldn't care with a coupon you actually make money off the claim. One issue I see is the Hemi motor on short supply at harbor freight. there is no guarantee you can have a motor in one week plus these motors get faster the more laps they have. I bought two the first time and one was a dud would not rev past 3500 rpm what do you do then?
the best option to me would be race the Ducar 212 or a the Tillotsen 212 and have them sealed like the 206. I'm sure that's what Dyno cams and Tillotsen thought when they commissioned those motors but nobody took to it.
 
J'-remy said:
more people should claim motors. especially in the Carolinas. They all cheat and they all know it. I have talked to both racers (including pros) and all the engine builders in North and South Carolina and they all told me what they do and how much it cost. some advertise it on their sites (I bought a clone in case you were wondering and no i don't have a cheated up predator). problem is everybody cheats so they are all worried it will happen to them next week. If You are really legit you shouldn't care with a coupon you actually make money off the claim. One issue I see is the Hemi motor on short supply at harbor freight. there is no guarantee you can have a motor in one week plus these motors get faster the more laps they have. I bought two the first time and one was a dud would not rev past 3500 rpm what do you do then?
the best option to me would be race the Ducar 212 or a the Tillotsen 212 and have them sealed like the 206. I'm sure that's what Dyno cams and Tillotsen thought when they commissioned those motors but nobody took to it.
Click to expand...
You know the old saying, if everyone is cheating, nobody is.

Personally, I would only claim somebody's engine if it was absolutely blatantly obvious that it is illegal. If it's close, I just need to get better.
 
jaymancds said:
You know the old saying, if everyone is cheating, nobody is.

Personally, I would only claim somebody's engine if it was absolutely blatantly obvious that it is illegal. If it's close, I just need to get better.
Click to expand...
Then what would you do with the illegal motor, can't run it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top